American Indian Airwaves - Thursday, June 11, 2026

Follows the audio · click any line to jump

1. You're listening to KPFK, 90.7 FM, Los Angeles, 98.7 FM, Santa Barbara County, and the Chronicle
2. Globe at kpfk.org, Pacifica Radio for all of us serving California and beyond.
3. If you stop to listen, you can hear their hearts beating loud.
4. Can't keep those California Indians down.
5. Hello everyone, you're listening to American Indian Airwaves.
6. For Marcus Lopez, I'm your host, Larry Smith.
7. On today's program, Protecting the Buffalo Relations Throughout the Yellowstone Pelican Valley Region, we'll get an extensive update on the Trump administration's new policies that could have devastating impacts for the life of the last remaining pre-colonial genetically pure buffalo relations throughout the region.
8. You're listening to American Indian Airwaves.
9. You can hear when the moon shines bright, the lone fool in the black of night.
10. You can hear, you can hear the whisper in the valley.
11. And you know when Kama Kani blows to the Pahu drum, it's the warriors who are marching down the mountain.
12. Because history ain't no mystery to me.
13. Once numbering over 80 million, bison were hunted to near extinction in the late 1800s.
14. Men would shoot the buffalo relations through train windows for purpose, for sport, or the hide trade, and left them to rot on the plains of Mother Earth.
15. Entire herds were wiped out and the Buffalo Relations were slaughtered to gain control over indigenous peoples and nations
16. who relied on the Bison Relations for food, clothing, shelter, tools, cultural and spiritual practices, and more.
17. It is well understood by settler colonialists that the killing of the Buffalo Relations was equivalent to killing indigenous peoples' traditional and cultural practices.
18. also known as genocides. By 1890, there were less than 1,000 bison, with only 23 surviving in
19. Yellowstone's Pelican Valley. Today, there are around 6,000 pre-colonial genetically intact
20. buffalo relations living throughout the region who are now under heightened and intensified
21. threats from the Trump administration policies, such as its recent decision by the Department
22. of Interior canceling all leases for buffalo grazing on federal lands managed by the Bureau
23. of Land Management. But the buffalo relations also face continued threats from the state of Montana,
24. hunters and ranchers, and the Yellowstone National Park's buffalo management practices,
25. and more Our guest for today here on American Indian Airwaves is Dallas Gudgel He from the Yankton Dakota from the Fort Peck Assiniboine and Sioux Nations in Montana and he the Tribal Programs Director for the Buffalo Field Campaign a non
26. organization working to stop the harassment and slaughter of Yellowstone's original buffalo herds,
27. protect the natural habitat of the free-roaming buffalo, and other indigenous plants and animal
28. relations and work with all people, including other indigenous nations, and to honor and protect
29. the sacredness of the Buffalo relations. Today on American Indian Airwaves, I'm joined by Marcus
30. Lopez from the Barbarian Band of the Chumash Nation. He's the co-host and executive producer
31. of American Indian Airwaves and now protecting the Buffalo relations with Dallas Gudgel of the
32. Buffalo Field Campaign. Welcome to the American Indian Airwaves, Dallas. You are part of and
33. part of the effort to protect the buffalo, the bison, on the Buffalo Field Campaign
34. organization. So thank you for joining us today. Yeah, thank you. I'm happy to be here
35. to talk about Buffalo.
36. Oh, yes.
37. You know, the American bison now.
38. Unfortunately, we want to talk to you
39. about the present federal allotments
40. and whatnot relationship to a lot of things.
41. But before that, Dallas,
42. why don't you give a little sum up
43. of the Buffalo Phil campaign
44. and what that is to our listeners?
45. Yeah, the Buffalo Field Campaign is a 30-year-old organization that was started by a Lakota woman, Rosalie Little Thunder, and a friend of hers, Mike Meese, started this about 30 years ago with the intent of saving, I guess, or conserving the Yellowstone bison.
46. This is the Yellowstone buffalo.
47. This is the last continuously wild herd that we have in the U.S. in Yellowstone Park.
48. And what was happening is the Park Service was killing the bison as they were leaving the park, doing their normal migration.
49. So Rosalie Little Thunder got together with Arvo Looking Horse and decided that she needed to bring this to the attention of the world.
50. And so Buffalo Field Campaign is dedicated to being out in the field witnessing the bison and trying to help preserve and conserve this herd in the park.
51. So it's a long story, but we're out in the field every day with the buffalo and also kind of watching the policies of the National Park Service when the buffalo leave the park and they ship them to slaughter or kill them as they're leaving.
52. Yes, Dallas, thank you for that. Now, why don't you share with us, for our listeners, Yellowstone Park. What area of the world are we talking about?
53. Yeah, Yellowstone Park is about two million acres of
54. Our first national park in the US it is in the northeastern corner
55. Excuse me
56. Northwestern corner of Wyoming a little bit of it spills over into Idaho and a little bit to the north spills over into Montana But primarily of the 2 million acres 95 of it is in the northwestern corner of Wyoming
57. Thank you.
58. And what states to borders are we talking about?
59. What states of the United States?
60. Yeah, again, the park is in the northwestern corner of Wyoming.
61. The bordering state to the north is Montana, and the bordering state to the west is Idaho.
62. Thank you very much, Dallas.
63. Now, within those 30 more years of the organization, it hasn't been an easy venture as far as protecting the bison in that area.
64. they are about how many bison are they now that are in the park?
65. Well, right now there's probably a little over 5,000 buffalo.
66. We don't have clear numbers right now.
67. The Park Service doesn't have clear numbers.
68. I would say there's around 5,000.
69. That is the management population target.
70. prior to about two years ago, they were managing for 3,500 buffalo in the park, which is not
71. really a reasonable number. It's not going to produce a viable population of healthy, thriving
72. buffalo. And there's a carrying capacity for the park is much larger than 3,500. But they've been
73. managing for that amount for the last 20 years or so until two years ago when they decided they
74. through an environmental impact statement managed for 5,000. However, the state of Montana sued the
75. park service that is in court still and the part the state of Montana wants the park service to go
76. back to a 3,500 management population target. Thank you Dallas. Dallas, what are the main
77. challenges through the decades that the Belford Small Campaign has experienced.
78. If you could quickly review them, the last 30 years.
79. Yeah, it all started, again, with the Park Services policy to not allow the buffalo to
80. leave the park.
81. So all other wildlife, elk, deer, bear, they're all the migratory ungulate species like elk
82. and deer.
83. and pronghorn, they are all allowed to leave the park as wildlife and come, you know, go back and
84. forth. The buffalo was not allowed to leave the park. And so the Park Service was controlling
85. their movements and their migratory patterns. And that was the biggest challenge in the beginning,
86. was trying to eliminate the killing of the buffalo as they leave the park. What happened
87. then is that idea got exposed. They were hazing buffalo back into the park or killing them.
88. And then they had set up capture facilities where they capture the buffalo in capture pens and then
89. ship them to slaughter. This is all a part of keeping that management population target low.
90. Well, those have been a number of the challenges.
91. Recently we faced some other challenges where we do a lot of highway safety.
92. And what that entails is Highway 191 near West Yellowstone Montana is a well highway and the buffalo leave the park They get on the roadways especially in the winter and we have a lot of vehicle and buffalo collisions
93. So we try to keep the buffalo off the road.
94. We do a lot of signage and help buffalo to get to a safe place inside the park.
95. and hopefully will eliminate some of the vehicle and buffalo collisions.
96. What are the main arguments in the last decades as far as challenging the Buffalo campaign?
97. And talk about the misconception and myth about buffaloes have a disease that can go into the domestic cattle.
98. Talk about that, please.
99. yeah one of the reasons why the buffalo in the park the wild buffalo are treated
100. uh not allowed to leave the park is because they're treated by the state of montana as
101. a livestock species they're classified as livestock under state law they're classified
102. as a livestock species in need of disease control and that is a myth in that there has never been a
103. documented case where a buffalo has transferred Bursalosis to a cow. We have dozens of cases every
104. year where elk transfer Bursalosis to cows, but they're still allowed to be a free-roaming
105. migratory wildlife species while the buffalo is confined to the park and not allowed to migrate,
106. and they're treated as a livestock species. So that's our biggest challenge is the livestock
107. industry in Montana seems to kind of hold all the cards here. And because of the threat,
108. that is a bit of a myth, because of the threat of ursulosis, that is our biggest challenge in
109. getting buffalo to be classified as wildlife and be allowed to migrate. Now, states like Colorado
110. have classified buffalo as wildlife.
111. And so in Colorado, if a buffalo were to go into Colorado,
112. they would be treated as wildlife as opposed to livestock.
113. What is the difference?
114. Because people might not know.
115. I mean, this is a very particular policy of the federal government
116. and relationship to BLM and the Interior Department.
117. What's the big difference between wildlife and domestic?
118. Again, when buffalo are classified as livestock, they're managed by the Department of Livestock for whichever state.
119. So in Montana, they're managed by the Department of Livestock.
120. If they were classified as wildlife, they'd be managed by the Montana Fish and Game Department.
121. That is who manages buffalo. If there were some wild buffalo to enter Colorado, they would be managed by the Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission.
122. So that is the major difference, is that the livestock industry, in the form of the Department of Livestock, then manages the buffalo when they're classified as livestock.
123. And again, and that's that causes them to not go back to their normal wild roaming migratory patterns that they're that they've always had.
124. Dallas, when you or when people look at this particular situation,
125. they think as buffaloes or they think of anything like there's everything is like in public lands
126. that we'll let the animals do whatever they do.
127. And let the relationships with our relatives, as native people say,
128. let the animals do what they do and without any interference.
129. And we want to remind listeners you're listening to American Indian Airwaves.
130. We're speaking with Dallas Scudgel.
131. He is the tribal programs director for the Buffalo Field Campaign.
132. He's speaking on the Trump administration's new policies and its potential devastating impact to protect the Buffalo relations throughout the Yellowstone, Pelican Valley region and more.
133. And now back to the interview.
134. At the same time, there are a lot of permits and a lot of agencies that overlook that process.
135. And over the years, we've been covering the Buffalo Flow Campaign, starting with the interview with Mike and Rosalie.
136. But within that, there's a lot of agencies, many, many agencies.
137. And one of them in particular that came up, which talks about grazing.
138. Could you go over, and there's a reason I ask this question, about the Taylor Grazing Act.
139. What is that?
140. Yeah, that is an interesting case that just recently came up.
141. on June or excuse me on July 16th of this year, 2026, Secretary Burgum wrote a notice that says
142. the American prairie which has about 900 buffalo that have been grazing on 10 or 11
143. Bureau of Land Management grazing units for the last 15 years, Secretary Burgum said well these
144. are wildlife these buffalo are wildlife and the Taylor grazing act my personal interpretation as
145. the secretary of interior is that the Taylor grazing act says it has to be livestock in order
146. to have a permit grazing permit on an allotment and so the buffalo are caught in the middle it's
147. It's a very schizophrenic management structure.
148. The state of Montana calls them wildlife.
149. So they don't allow them to leave the park
150. as a wildlife species.
151. But yet the secretary of interior has now claimed
152. that they're wildlife and he's revoked the grazing permits
153. from the American Prairie,
154. who's been running a conservation herd
155. for the last 15 years on those allotments.
156. And as a native person, I'm with you.
157. This is our four-legged relative that we have some relationships with.
158. We co-evolved with this species.
159. We have some relationships and contracts that are a millennia old
160. where we take care of the buffalo and allow them to do what they do,
161. and they take care of us by being our aboriginal food source.
162. And so that's one of the things
163. that the Buffalo Field Campaign has been working on
164. is to try to allow the buffalo to be wildlife
165. and to be free roaming.
166. Being from Fort Peck we do get some buffalo out of the park in what called the transfer program and then we distribute those Yellowstone buffalo with that wild genetics to other tribes
167. Fort Peck is distributed to about 28 tribes in 12 different states.
168. So the more buffalo that we have in conservation herds, I think the better,
169. And they do need to have their migratory patterns.
170. And I think that that's basically what we have been trying to do is allow them to be wildlife.
171. So I get what you're saying, I think, Dallas.
172. And that is that now these bison, these buffalo, are kind of like undocumented.
173. I mean, we think as buffalo or the wolves or deer or you go on, salmon, whatever you want to describe in nature, and that is these buffalo and this policy, that's the one I get into.
174. That's why I mentioned the Taylor-Greason Act, Dallas, was because the Trump administration changed the federal policy against permitting bison on public lands, number one.
175. And the eviction of 1,000 bison from what's reported the federal grasslands in Montana.
176. That's why I wanted you to describe Montana's relationship to the area you cover, but that the BLM reversed the 2022 authorization that allowed a nonprofit American prairie to graze its herds on public allotments favoring domesticated cattle.
177. now what does this mean to to the ranching priorities and this particular
178. decision the federal government through Trump administration is freezing up
179. thousands of acres of federal land on Montana to cattle grazing what's your
180. view on that is that something that we should be concerned with something that
181. that is just, well, we'll let it do its course.
182. Talk to us about that.
183. Unpack that for us, please.
184. Yeah, there's currently about 50,000 buffalo
185. that are in conservation herds,
186. and we need much more than that.
187. And so if the Department of Interior
188. is going to revoke grazing permits on BLM land,
189. that's going to reduce that number of conservation herds
190. wild buffalo and i'm i'm in favor of having more than 50 000 of that 50 000 about half of those
191. buffalo are on tribal lands their tribal tribal herd on reservations and the other half the other
192. 25 000 is on private land similar to american prairie they're on state parks they're on
193. federal reserves and federal like the park service
194. like Yellowstone bison.
195. So those 50,000 bison, again, if they're not allowed
196. to graze on our public land either a forest service allotment or a BLM allotment that conservation herds are gonna be reduced in population
197. And I'm in favor of increasing their population.
198. And this isn't a hard puzzle.
199. There's another 450,000 buffalo that are commercial buffalo,
200. both being raised by native and non-native ranchers.
201. um for commercial purposes and that's fine too um but it's not a lot different than elk it's not a
202. huge puzzle to figure out there's a lot of private elk ranches and you can go uh be guaranteed an elk
203. going on to one of these private elk ranches those are commercial elk where uh and also
204. there's plenty of wild elk so you can buy a hunting tag from whatever state montana colorado
205. and go hunt wild elk so it's not like this is a hard thing to figure out we can have commercial
206. bison uh and that's great but we need more conservation bison now dallas um this goes into
207. the this notion of the public lands rule talk about that and and in particularly how does that
208. is a conflict or align itself with with the categories that you explain as far as
209. looking at not domesticated necessarily or commercial bison or buffalo but yet the buffalo's
210. you're in the families i would say the families okay dallas because you're taking care of the
211. families in in um yellowstone you know those are we followed them and then through through the your
212. newsletters and through the organization taking care of families from the mothers and the fathers
213. to the babies the calves you know and whatnot and you follow through the years on out through the
214. seasons, you know, which has to do with a lot of public land rule.
215. Talk about that for us.
216. Yeah, we, um, what I'm seeing in this current administration is
217. the tax on our public lands.
218. Uh, it started last June and in 25, 2025, when there was a writer on an
219. appropriations bill to sell off about a third of our public land.
220. And I saw that as an attack on our public land.
221. That's our public trust.
222. And these wildlife species that are on our public land, elk, deer, buffalo,
223. they are part of our public trust and should be allowed to be on these public lands.
224. I'm seeing other attacks on our public land where some of the hunting rules and regulations
225. are being rolled back on some of our national parks and our wildlife reserves.
226. So I am seeing both attacks on our public land and attacks on our wildlife species.
227. It was the National Bison Legacy Act of 2016 declares buffalo as our national mammal.
228. And that buffalo as our national mammal is celebrated the first Saturday of every November.
229. And yet this wildlife species is being persecuted in certain states like Montana And it is These are relatives
230. And especially inside the park.
231. These are family units.
232. When the buffalo are run into the capture facilities, in that capture pen in the corrals,
233. their relatives, they come and visit.
234. They want to know what's going on.
235. And what happens to those buffalo in the capture pen is then they're shipped off to slaughter.
236. So it's been a challenge to allow our relatives to be roaming free, and we're going to keep working on doing that.
237. But I noticed that this particular administration seems to be working against us.
238. Thank you, Dallas, for saying that, because this public land rule was previously placed at conservation on federal land on an equal footing with mining and drilling and logging.
239. and that is to say that they have a NEPA and all those kind of things that look at
240. environmentally the difference and the similarities which we know that as far
241. as what it seems what you said Dallas and I should the same view as far as the
242. present administration focuses more on mining or drilling and logging than it
243. is on the conservation of our relatives or other species whether they are endangered or not.
244. Now, do you think it's this effort to this present administration and its repealing of the public
245. lands world, do you think it's going to, it sets precedence as far as what they do with other
246. national parks and other places and whether on the conservation if you would of a different kind of
247. do you think it's going to have a ripple effect what's your view
248. yeah i think it's it's already started to have a quite a negative impact under the previous
249. administration um conservation environmental uh impact those had the equal standing and equal
250. footing. Our public lands are multi-use. Well, conservation, preserving biodiversity, and
251. overall ecological health of our public lands had equal footing to the extractive industries of
252. development, oil and gas. And now it doesn't under this current administration, and we're already
253. seen and it's often native folks, Native Americans that tend to suffer from this.
254. One of the things we've seen now that the conservation aspect doesn't have equal footing
255. is that at Chaco Canyon, which is one of the most sacred sites for the tribes that are
256. down there local near Chaco Canyon, they're opening that national reserve up for oil and
257. gas drilling. You know, that would have been unheard of in previous administrations. But
258. here we are. Sacred sites in Chaco Canyon are also now under attack because of the rollback of the
259. public lands rule. And you're listening to American Indian Airwaves. We're speaking with
260. Dallas Scudgel from the Yankton, Dakota, from the Fort Peck, Assiniboine and Sioux Nations in
261. He's also the tribal programs director for the Buffalo Field campaign, and he's speaking
262. on the Trump administration's current policies that could have devastating impacts on the
263. environment and the last remaining 5,000 pre-colonial genetically intact buffalo relations
264. living throughout the Yellowstone Pelican Valley region. You're listening to American Indian
265. Airwaves. We're going to take a short musical break with a brand new song by Joy Hargel
266. called Stomp All Night
267. off her brand new album
268. Insomnia and Seven Steps to Grace
269. here on American Indian Airwaves.
270. Bury my heart
271. At horseshoe bend
272. We pay for light
273. We pay for water
274. Next thing you know
275. We're gonna pay to breathe harder
276. Let's sing for the sisters
277. Day no high snow
278. Next all day
279. Stomp all night
280. Give it to the brothers
281. They know how to sing
282. Love all night, pay all day
283. Agus Amit, Hisagadamasi
284. Pomadi, Moetowigas
285. Pokooyen, Yejiadi
286. Mon agavechka islen, pogalejen, apieyatles
287. Let's hear for the sisters, they know how to stop
288. Dance all night, kids all day
289. Give it to the brothers, they know how to sing
290. Work all day, kids all night.
291. All right.
292. This is the kill it.
293. The grounds north of 40 keep their cool.
294. They're warm and friendly and like to play pool.
295. The grounds south of 40 sing loose and sweet.
296. They're sure good looking like pork meat.
297. Thank you.
298. Well, well, well, well.
299. I love you.
300. Hey it here for the sisters Rain all night stone up all night cook all day Give it to the brothers They don have to sing
301. Work all day, up all night
302. Let's give it for the sisters
303. They don't have to stop
304. Stop all night until the morning light
305. Give it to the brothers
306. They know how to sing
307. Trail of Tears, it's here in the Muskogee Nation Reservation
308. Let's hear it for the sisters
309. They know how to stomp
310. Stomp all night until the morning light
311. Give it to the brothers
312. They know how to sing
313. Love all day, love all night
314. Let's hear it for the sisters
315. Take care of the songs, the songs will take care of us
316. Give it to the brothers
317. Pray all day, pray all night
318. Let's give our sisters
319. Give it to the brothers
320. Make no hearts give but a sister
321. Give it to the father
322. Make no hearts give but a sister
323. Give it to the father
324. Make no hearts give but a sister
325. The song Stomp All Night by Joy Harjo off her brand new album, Insomnia and Seven Steps to Grace, here on American Indian Airwaves.
326. And the second part of our show today here on American Indian Airwaves, we go back to our interview with Dallas Scudgel from the Yankton Dakota of the Fort Peck, Assiniboine and Sioux Nations in Montana.
327. He's also tribal programs director for the Buffalo Field Campaign, which is working tirelessly over the decades to protect the remaining 5,000 pre-colonial genetically intact buffalo relations throughout the Yellowstone Pelican Valley region.
328. They are under heightened threatened attacks due to the Trump administration's new policies, along with the ongoing threats by the state of Montana, hunters and ranchers, and the Yellowstone National Park's buffalo management practices, and more.
329. And now we go back to our interview with Dallas Scudgel here on American Indian Airwaves.
330. Dallas, I was waiting for our listeners. In prior interviews, we've had these extensive conversations about Montana ranchers and what it means for the Buffalo relations just being under threat by the ranchers.
331. And I was wondering if we could maybe kind of step back and talk a little bit about these cattle ranchers that drive a lot of Montana's agricultural economy and that are politically linked, you know, with the Republicans in the state, including the Montana governor, who's a good friend of Secretary Burgum.
332. But I was wondering maybe talk a little bit about what it means for the Buffalo relations and local ranchers and also for local ranchers that have placed these negative bison easements on future sales of their property I was wondering if you could talk about that for our listeners
333. Yeah, there is a, I guess, an overall attitude that bison, they don't belong on our public lands.
334. And again, a lot of that is driven by the livestock industry, and they're using that particular idea of versalosis as the leverage for not allowing that.
335. And there's, you know, I like to work with ranchers if we can.
336. I'd like to try to convince some of the ranchers in and around the park to switch to buffalo.
337. And so that would be something that I could see being favorable.
338. But it is kind of, if you will, it is a bit of a sacred cow that is untouchable in the state of Montana, which is the livestock industry.
339. And you're right, there's a direct political link to that.
340. If you'll notice, when the Wilderness Society put up the maps of all of the public lands that were up for sale with Senator Lee's rider on that appropriation bills last June, not one acre of public land was up for sale in Montana.
341. That's because, in my opinion, and I don't know, I'm not in the backroom deals.
342. but the congressional delegation and the governor of Montana
343. seem to be lockstep with this administration
344. and they seem to also get what they want.
345. So you saw thousands and tens of thousands of acres for sale
346. in every state in the West except for Montana.
347. And now you're seeing the state of Montana
348. and Secretary Burgum are lockstep in eliminating bison from Burlington or Bureau of Land Management
349. allotments that bison have been using for 15 years. So the connection seemed to be pretty
350. transparent to me. The livestock industry kind of controlling the elected officials in the state
351. and going lockstep with the current administration on these attacks on both public land and our wildlife, for all I know.
352. Yes, Dallas, it seems like, thank you, Larry, for that question,
353. because it just seems like the tail's wagging the dog, you might say, if you will,
354. and the American Prairie Conservation Group is appealing to the decision of what the federal government
355. and what the Trump administration is putting into effect,
356. and therefore the Interior Department and BLM.
357. But it doesn't touch on so much on tribal herds, on tribal and federal land,
358. but some of the members, some of the native indigenous leaders
359. say that it could threaten tribal bison restoration efforts.
360. Is that true?
361. Yeah, I think it is true and this didn't go unnoticed by tribes.
362. There many tribes that also sent protest letters to that decision by the secretary and the coalition of large tribe that 50 tribes 50 large tribes sent a letter in protest to that decision as well for that very reason
363. you know our trust lands on our reservation those are in department of interior too and the bia
364. so again it it didn't go unnoticed by by many many tribes that this could be a future threat
365. for our conservation herds and our sustenance herds.
366. And many tribes have both.
367. They have a conservation herd
368. to keep our spiritual historical connections to the buffalo.
369. And then we have a sustenance herd
370. that we get to feed our people with
371. and move back to our Aboriginal food source.
372. And hopefully that will help with some of our health crises on reservations.
373. So I think it has the potential to affect restoration of buffalo on tribal lands.
374. And apparently many of the tribes believe that too.
375. I know that some of the tribal chairmen like Cheyenne River sent letters and then the coalition of our tribes sent some letters as well.
376. Now, Dallas, when speaking about that and what comes to my mind,
377. and I know Larry always asks a question about treaty rights and the notion of, okay,
378. federal policy, they do whatever they do.
379. At the same time, the treaty rights, and especially the Buffy Flow campaign,
380. through the decades, been working with tribes and often non-situations.
381. through your experience and through your history of the organization.
382. But what about treaty rights?
383. Do you think that's a good challenge in order for not only the American Prairie Conservation Group
384. but also the tribal groups in challenge as saying that,
385. and especially the American Indian Religious Act that was passed decades ago.
386. But, yeah, take us through, if you will,
387. I know you have discussions with a lot of tribal leaders and tribal peoples.
388. Like you said, it started with your organization,
389. started with Rosalie Yellowthander and also our looking horse
390. and other people that were very much interested in our Buffalo relations.
391. What about the law?
392. The professional listeners said that we've been talking about federal policy,
393. We were talking about how your organization doesn't work.
394. We were talking about what this presentation is doing everything.
395. I would just say backwards, that's my opinion.
396. But, yeah, going from there, just take a wider view now.
397. It seems like all these decisions are anthropomorphic.
398. It's like human-based rather than taking the base.
399. That's why I really, it seems like the Buffalo Flow Campaign has been not in that direction, more in the direction of let's hear what the bison, let's hear what the buffalo says.
400. Let's hear what the family says.
401. When you said they're rounded up, just like many of the human beings have been rounded up, you know, put in cages, the buffalo's been doing the same thing.
402. And then in turn, the buffalo knows, hey, what's going on?
403. Hey, this is unfair.
404. THIS IS INJUSTICE.
405. IN YOUR ACTIVITY, YOU'VE BEEN
406. VERY MUCH CONCERNED, NOT ONLY
407. TAKEN FROM A HUMAN STANDPOINT,
408. I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF IT MAKES
409. ANY SENSE, BUT STANDPOINT
410. from a standpoint of let's take the buffalo in this case,
411. let's take what their concerns are, what their needs are,
412. what their religious and our religious interpretation of that,
413. different cultures and different tribal belief systems.
414. Talk about that for us and what's your experience within that.
415. I'm sorry for the long-winded question, but I want to give a flavor.
416. Our listeners can go beyond just the mechanics some more
417. and to the reasons why you do and the reasons why Native people do what they do.
418. And we want to remind listeners, you're listening to American Indian Airwaves.
419. We're speaking with Dallas Gudgel.
420. He is the Tribal Programs Director for the Buffalo Field Campaign.
421. He's speaking on the Trump administration's new policies
422. and its potential devastating impact to protect the Buffalo relations
423. throughout the Yellowstone, Pelican Valley region and more.
424. And now back to the interview.
425. Yeah, there's two things that come up with that.
426. One is we try to follow the buffalo.
427. This is our relative, and we know that we can learn from them.
428. We learn how to take care of our families.
429. And, you know, the buffalo, when someone does, one of their family members does die, the buffalo gather around and they mourn that.
430. And they take care of one another.
431. They plow through the snow, and when that lead buffalo get tired, they step aside and the next one takes over and they plow that trail.
432. And then that opens it up for all kinds of other animals.
433. and elk and deer, they can use that same trail through the snow
434. because they're taking care of one another.
435. And so we do try to see what the buffalo want and follow them.
436. And that's one way that we were able to secure safe harbor
437. on the Horse Butte Peninsula just west of the park
438. and just northwest of West Yellowstone.
439. Now that happened, oh, maybe like 10 years ago, where now the buffalo wanted to leave the park to the west, and they wanted to go out onto that Horse Butte Peninsula to calve.
440. Well, prior to 10 years ago, they weren't allowed to do that.
441. But we said, well, they're picking their tolerant zone.
442. They want to use this.
443. They want to be out there, and they want to be safe.
444. And they want to use this for the calving grounds.
445. So over time, we ended up getting that with one of the former governors of the state of Montana.
446. And so they can go out right now.
447. They're calving.
448. And, you know, the last three or four weeks they've been calving.
449. And they're out on Horse Butte.
450. So we followed the buffalo to where they wanted to go.
451. And they picked their own tolerance zone.
452. what they're trying to tell us now is they when the snow gets deep they want to leave the park
453. to the north they want to walk up the yellowstone drainage so we can learn from the buffalo and
454. listen to where they're where they want to be and they can pick their own tolerant zones and
455. that's what we try to do is when they picked horse butte we tried to secure that for a place
456. of safe harbor.
457. The other thing that we believe is we need to grow that Yellowstone herd we need to grow conservation herds on reservations And we support treaty purposes and tribal treaty hunting We have there almost 50 tribes that have
458. historical connections to the greater Yellowstone ecosystem. And we have in many of those treaties,
459. we have the provisions for hunting and gathering
460. in our usual and accustomed territories
461. in the greater Yellowstone.
462. So we support treaty hunters
463. because they're trying to feed their families as well.
464. And we do support that.
465. And if you look at a case from 2019,
466. Harara versus Wyoming,
467. that case was a tribal member from Wind River was hunting elk on Forest Service land and that went
468. up to the Supreme Court and it was found that yep under the treaty of the treaties that were signed
469. with with the two tribes in Wind River that's fine this the tribal people get to hunt on the
470. Forest Service land. So we do want to follow the buffalo and honor them and that they can pick
471. their tolerance zones that they'd like to be in. And we also support treaty purposes.
472. Now, if it was under tribal management, if that herd was under tribal management,
473. I wonder if we'd be hunting in February and March, which is what the Park Service wants us to do.
474. and so historically native people didn't didn't take bison in February and March because the
475. mamas are pregnant we hunted later on in the summer and so if we put that herd under tribal
476. management a coalition of tribes perhaps I wonder if they'd pick a different time of year to exercise
477. treaty purposes. I would hope so. I don't know the answer to that.
478. Dallas, thank you so much for answering that long-winded question. But just one last thing,
479. and that is, what do you want to share with the public at this point in time? Any last comments?
480. Well, one of the things that recently happened, and the comment period closed Friday, yesterday,
481. we submitted comments to the park service they're going to open back up this environmental impact
482. statement they're calling it a supplemental environmental impact statement to the
483. environmental impact statement that they just approved less than two years ago with a population
484. target of 5,000 buffalo well since the state of Montana sued the park service and they want to
485. reduce that population target back down to 3,000. Again, I think the thing is pretty transparent
486. here is the Park Service is now going to want to go back in and amend that environmental impact
487. statement. Are they going to want to reduce the population again? Well, we don't know.
488. But they did announce that they're going to open it back up, do a supplemental environmental impact
489. statement and I'm concerned that that's going to be bad for the Buffalo ultimately. So I
490. don know what the process will be The park service will announce that but I don know what the process will be after this comment period closes but we had been following the original environmental impact
491. statement since 2000 and they came up with some alternatives in 20 2022 and then they finalized
492. uh picked one of the alternatives and finalized it in 2024. so seems to me uh
493. And opening that back up just less than two years prior to when it was finalized doesn't bode well for what they might want to be doing in the future with our national mammal and our relatives.
494. Dallas, what can people do?
495. Well, you can write to the park service, Yellowstone Park, and let them know that you would like to see buffalo be treated as wildlife.
496. And you'd like to see if they're going to open the environmental impact statement process back up.
497. You'd like to see the capture for slaughter stop immediately.
498. You'd like to see them be treated as wildlife.
499. and that the alternatives that they come up with need to be looking at the Gallatin National Forest
500. as habitat for bison to roam outside the park.
501. And there will be a comment period, but you don't have to wait for that.
502. You can start writing letters to the Park Service.
503. That sounds great, Dallas.
504. And Dallas, I know you're always looking for volunteers,
505. and people go out there for your organization.
506. They can key into the Buffer Phil campaign.
507. You have a very good website.
508. You have newsletters.
509. You have communiques.
510. You have events.
511. You have upcoming activities,
512. especially we didn't talk about climate change and effect,
513. but all that.
514. The goal is to see that the public has a role within that.
515. And thank you so much for joining us
516. on this really important issue
517. for the Buffalo and your work, your stellar work regarding the effort in Yellowstone Park
518. and the Buffalo.
519. Thank you so much for joining the American Indian Airways.
520. Well, I appreciate it.
521. Thanks for having me on and again, once again, listening to Buffalo Field Campaign and what
522. we're trying to do.
523. I appreciate it.
524. Thank you.
525. The moment of silence is over.
526. and that was dallas scudgel from the yankton dakota from the fort peck assiniboine and
527. nations in montana he's the tribal programs director for the buffalo field campaign
528. and he's speaking on the trump administration's current policies and its potential threats to
529. the last remaining 5,000 pre-colonial genetically intact buffalo relations throughout the Yellowstone
530. Pelican Valley region. For more information on the work of the Buffalo Field Campaign,
531. you can visit their website at buffalofieldcampaign.org. And that concludes our show for
532. today here on American Indian Airwaves. A special thank you to our guest, Dallas Gudgel. A special
533. thank you to our musical guest, Aragon Star, Kupa Ina, Joy Harjo, and the band Blackfire.
534. American Indian Airwaves is mixed and mastered in the studios of Burnt Swamp Studios in Signal Hill California For Marcus Lopez I been your host for the hour Larry Smith Until next time
535. When they ignore our words
536. For all the lies
537. There's a truth that must be heard
538. After all the lies and the empty promises
539. We take a stand on the land that you tried to bury us
540. For all the pain and all the suffering
541. We take a stand, we take a stand
542. We sleep cage against our fears
543. Try not to become what we've endured
544. Wearing our souls on a thread
545. The moment of silence is over
546. That is the history of the American dream
547. From a long walk to jail and tears to wounded knee
548. No compromise, no compliance
549. A rhythm of resistance they could never silence
550. Let our actions speak
551. We made it through our roots
552. For all the lies
553. That's the truth
554. That's the truth, yeah
555. Cut to the chase.
556. Here's every Friday morning at 8 a.m.
557. Join us as we dialogue with activists.
558. They were given a pledge.
559. Historians, musicians, poets, and you, the listener.
560. Not only analyzing our current situation, but coming up with solutions.
561. What is your strategy, Wim?
562. Street Sankofa, take this music.
563. Analysis and solutions.
564. And what did we talk about?
565. Survival skills in 2026 and beyond.
566. 9-11, there were people in the Pentagon that was glad that it happened.
567. Redefining local police departments.
568. And while going through certain parts of Los Angeles, I actually saw, this was my own eyes,
569. police passing out Red Devils.
570. Reparations, colorism, and much more.
571. Cut to the chase every Friday at 8 a.m.
572. And all of friendship is built.
573. Hello, beautiful souls and cosmic travelers.
574. Support for KPFK comes in part from the band Definitely Dead, a Grateful Dead tribute band performing Friday, June 12th at Del Mar Social, located at 3444 Trip Court in San Diego, California, and Saturday, June 13th at the El Rey Theater in Los Angeles.
575. Doors open at 7 p.m. and both shows begin at 8 p.m.
576. Further information and tickets are available at definitelydead.com, kpfk.org, and Definitely Dead Band on Facebook.
577. So gather your beautiful people, follow the dancing lights, and let the music carry you into the stars.
578. I'm Gregorio Luque and you're listening to KPS.
579. FK 90.7 FM en Los Ángeles, 98.7.