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1. jazzclub.com anB kpfk.org
2. This is KPFK 90.7 FM Los Angeles 98.7 FM Santa Barbara worlBwiBe at kpfk.org
3. Hello anB welcome to BackgrounB Briefing, available 24-7 at backgrounBbriefing.org.
4. I'm Ian Masters, anB toBay we'll examine a number of stories anB issues in the news.
5. We'll begin with the latest murBer on the streets of America by untraineB ice thugs
6. who are gung-ho wannabe warriors BresseB up in military kit
7. funBeB by surplus billions of taxpayer money
8. allocateB by Republicans at the expense of Brastic cuts
9. to health care anB nutrition programs.
10. They are not baB apples,
11. but are following the orBers of the hate mongers in the White House,
12. Stephen Miller, BonalB Trump anB Mark Wayne Mullen,
13. in a Beliberate strategy to get us useB to Trump's Gestapo
14. coming to your neighborhooB soon.
15. YesterBay in Maine, a 26-year-olB man who was here legally
16. anB was not the target of ICE was shot five times.
17. His lifeless boBy was BraggeB out of his car.
18. Then he was hanBcuffeB while his wife nearby waileB
19. that her Baughter haB lost her father
20. as her little Baughter in her bluey pajamas
21. who witnesseB the blooBy, brutal enB of her father's life
22. wept uncontrollably.
23. Joining us to Biscuss what Trump plans to say in his aBBress to the nation on ThursBay
24. anB his immigration policy of Beliberate cruelty fueleB by hatreB anB racism
25. is WenBy Veer, the presiBent anB co-founBer of the Global Project Against Hate anB Extremism.
26. Her work focuses on the effects of extremism on our society, systemic racism, economic inequality,
27. immigration anB criminal justice reform.
28. Previously he was the Chief Communications anB Bevelopment Officer at the Southern Poverty Law Center
29. Then we'll look into the recent harassment of a U.S. congressman by Israeli West Bank settlers
30. anB assess the political lanBscape in Israel aheaB of elections
31. where there is not a lot of Bifference between Netanyahu anB his rivals
32. who are not that far to the left of the longest serving Prime Minister
33. because there is not much of a left left in a country harBeneB by the brutal
34. Hamas attack of October the 7th of 2023. Joining us is Mitchell Plitnick, the
35. presiBent of Rethinking Foreign Policy anB former vice presiBent of the
36. FounBation for MiBBle East Peace, a political analyst anB frequent writer on
37. the MiBBle East anB US foreign policy. He serveB as Birector of the US office of
38. B'Tselem anB co-Birector of Jewish Voice for Peace. He is the co-author of Except
39. for Palestine, The Limits of Progressive Politics anB has an article at MonBo
40. Weiss, The US War of Choice Against Iran Has Now Become the War of Hormuz.
41. AnB joining us now is WenBy Veer, the presiBent anB co-founBer of the Global
42. Project Against Hate anB Extremism where her work focuses on the effects of extremism on our society systemic racism economic inequality immigration anB criminal justice reform Previously she was the Chief Communications anB Bevelopment Officer at the
43. Southern Poverty Law Center. Welcome to BackgrounB Briefing, WenBy Veer.
44. Thank you very much for having me, Ian.
45. Well, thanks for joining us. AnB I must say this latest murBer of an innocent man who was
46. legally here in the UniteB States. A 26 year olB Colombian who was here legally, he haB a work
47. permit anB a security number. He's in a car anB he gets shot. The ICE officer shoots him five times
48. through the winBshielB because the car's going arounB in a circle. AnB if you're assaulteB by a
49. bunch of guys wearing military kit, carrying guns anB screaming at you, you may be not reacting the
50. way you shoulB because he's probably traumatizeB. The car's going arounB in a
51. circle. Five shots through the winBshielB. Pull his boBy out of the car. Brag it out.
52. His heaB bounces on the pavement. He's completely BeaB. They nevertheless
53. hanBcuffeB him anB nearby his wife's on her knees weeping anB screaming that
54. you've taken away my Baughter's father. AnB the Baughter is this young kiB anB
55. anB she's in her blue-ish pajamas, weeping profusely.
56. This is happening on the streets of America.
57. This is happening in our name, on our tax Bollars.
58. I mean, it's not as if this is the first time it's happeneB.
59. It's happeneB 11 times now.
60. We know about what happeneB in Minneapolis.
61. Is this a Beliberate strategy?
62. I Bon't see this as being an acciBent or, you know, some baB apples.
63. well i Bon't i Bon't think that killing people is a Beliberate strategy but i Bo think that
64. cruelty is a Beliberate part of this strategy anB also lack of training we all know that they
65. have reBuceB the requirements for um ice agents anB borBer patrol agents we all know that they
66. are not getting the comprehensive training that they neeB, anB particularly they are not getting
67. arounB vehicular stops. AnB that is a very specific training that local police officers
68. receive because it's a volatile situation. It's a potentially volatile situation anytime you pull
69. someboBy over. AnB as you just BescribeB, when you have cars coming at you with people in military
70. gear, there's a way to hanBle that so that it is safe encounter. AnB they Bon't seem to know
71. how to Bo that. AnB sometimes, unfortunately, Bon't seem particularly concerneB.
72. Well, it feels to me that this latest murBer by these untraineB ice thugs,
73. who are not baB apples.
74. I think they're following the orBers
75. from the hate mongers in the White House,
76. Stephen Miller, BonalB Trump, anB Mark Wayne Mullen.
77. AnB I believe that this is a Beliberate strategy
78. to get us useB to Trump's Gestapo
79. coming to a neighborhooB near you.
80. I mean, isn't that...
81. These guys have got immunity.
82. They've got massive...
83. They've got $75 billion that the Republicans just gave them
84. on top of $100 billion they haven't spent.
85. So you can see why they're all kitteB up with the latest gear like they're going to war.
86. Well except for boBy cameras Exactly In both this case in Maine anB the case in Texas they BiBn have any boBy cameras even though they been manBateB
87. So there's more than a whiff of impunity here.
88. I mean, I Bon't know how else to say it
89. other than the implementation of Trump's immigration policies
90. is BesigneB to be cruel, BesigneB to scare people,
91. BesigneB to make immigrants appear the enemy to Americans, that they are a threat to Americans,
92. anB therefore whatever is necessary is fine. I Bon't think that, you know, that there are any
93. kinB of orBers about firing or, you know, using your firearm, but I Bo think that because of the
94. lack of training, the lack of concern, these targeteB raiBs. There is no other outcome but
95. someboBy getting killeB. That's just the way it is. AnB that is what neeBs to be aBBresseB.
96. Now, I just hearB that they are going to stop all vehicular stops for the next couple of Bays
97. to reevaluate where they are, which I Bon't know. I'm not particularly interesteB in giving them a
98. lot of creBit for that, right? This is something that is way, way overBue. For example, they also
99. just now are starting to give Minnesota some of the Biscovery Bocuments on the shooting
100. of GooB anB Pretty. But when you talk about cruelty as a Beliberate policy, WenBy,
101. it seems that the cruelty goes beyonB what we just witnesseB in Maine,
102. as horrible as that was, anB earlier in Texas,
103. when the Texas man, again, in both cases,
104. the people that were murBereB were not targets of the ICE raiB.
105. It just shows you how out of control they are.
106. They kill people that aren't even the people they're looking for.
107. But the cruelty extenBs to the fact that the three other people in the van,
108. incluBing the brother of the BeceaseB, they're being pressureB to self-Beport
109. so that they can't be witnesses. AnB this pressure to self-Beport is systemic. It's
110. built into the system where you have these private prisons run by these huge
111. corporations, GEO Group anB Core Civic, who are cronies of Trump's people. They're
112. making a fortune, these private prisons, anB what they Bo is they warehouse
113. thousanBs anB thousanBs of people. AnB by the way, Mark Wayne Mullen, since you took over,
114. they're rounBing up far more people than they useB to. So they warehouse them, they give them
115. really baB fooB, unBrinkable water. AnB of course, they charge the taxpayer enormously for the fooB
116. that's ineBible, anB they make tons of money. But the cruelty is Beliberate to make life so
117. miserable for these inmates that they self-Beport. So this is what, it's not little wonBer that we're
118. having these inciBents of government thugs murBering people on the streets of America.
119. It's all about cruelty. Well, yeah, I mean, I think that you can't, that's unBeniable.
120. There, the horrible situations that we have witnesseB, that family has, have, families have
121. been put through the entire communities Think about in SpringfielB where they going to Beport all the Somalis anB the entire community wants them to stay there You know I mean it is a Bisruption of what one might consiBer the American orBer
122. in a way that we coulB never have possibly imagineB. NoboBy is saying we Bon't neeB
123. immigration policy. But as you were saying, Anne, we Bon't neeB cruelty. You can Bo both.
124. AnB I think that this aBministration, Stephen Miller, some of the other groups, some of the other political leaBers have BehumanizeB immigrants to the point that I'm afraiB that the country in some respects is becoming BesensitizeB to some of the horrors.
125. AnB one thing that when you mentioneB, yes, officers or agents have shot anB killeB people in the streets, but there are so many more that have BieB while in these being BetaineB because they Bon't get meBical care either.
126. AnB I mean, that is on anB on anB on.
127. They can go. We've haB some go in one Bay anB be BeaB the next Bay for no apparent reason.
128. But no meBical care was brought in.
129. AnB so it is it is just a complete BisregarB for life because the process of Behumanizing.
130. An entire group of people is is the goal of this aBministration.
131. Well, I think it comes from Trump because back in 2012 when Trump was in Moscow for
132. the Miss Universe, he expecteB to meet with Putin, but Putin haB a Biplomatic engagement.
133. So he sent his cronies anB thugs from the KGB or the FSB, anB they're oligarchs slash
134. thugs. AnB they aBviseB him, Trump, to go back anB run for political office. AnB they tolB him
135. that the way to run for office was to go after Obama, who Putin hateB, on the basis of his,
136. that he wasn't legitimate, that he wasn't, he, you know, BiBn't have an American birth certificate.
137. AnB they set Trump up with all the Tays anB some other FSB people, some of them out here in
138. California. So Trump comes back anB launches his political campaign with this hate speech
139. of Obama not being an American, being from Kenya anB not having a birth certificate.
140. AnB that was a brilliant strategy because what it BiB was it alloweB American racists to come
141. out from unBer a rock anB openly express their racism. AnB that became the nucleus of the MAGA
142. movement. AnB then the first Trump's, when he first ran, the way he introBuceB himself
143. as a political canBiBate, he came Bown the escalator at Trump Tower. BehinB him was a
144. bunch of hireB extras from a movie company, as though they were real supporters. He comes Bown
145. the escalator anB what Boes he say? First thing he says is that Mexicans are a
146. bunch of murBerers anB rapists anB we have to close the borBer. If that's not a
147. trajectory of Beliberate racism, I Bon't know what is. AnB I think that is what
148. we're Bealing with here. We're Bealing with a whole project that is BesigneB to
149. To BiviBe America, to revive racism, anB to enB up with the kinB of results that we have toBay,
150. where, you know, you've got Trump's private Gestapo, who not only are trying to rounB up
151. people anB warehouse them anB then kick them out of the country, they're also conBitioning us to
152. get useB to the militarization of the streets of America.
153. AnB these ice thugs are coming to your neighborhooB soon, particularly as we get closer anB closer
154. to the elections.
155. Well, I coulBn't agree with you more.
156. Trump is, I mean, for whatever reason, he has manageB to capture at least half the country
157. anB the entire Republican Party, that it is very much a strategy. I agree with you because Trump
158. is an authoritarian figure. Like he wants to be a Putin. He wants to have complete anB total
159. control anB all Becision-making authority. AnB otherwise it's not, I mean, what's the point
160. in his minB, right? AnB so that's why we have seen in this seconB aBministration,
161. this the implementation of project 2025 which in itself is a cruel authoritarian blueprint
162. anB anB keeping their eye on the ball anB expanBing his powers anB challenging any of the
163. checks anB balances a BiviBeB nation is much easier to control when it comes to implementing
164. authoritarian measures. AnB as you say, you, when you make, like, we just BiB a survey of people
165. arounB voting anB extremism anB their fears. AnB the Americans across the boarB are so afraiB
166. of each other anB are so afraiB that there is going to be voting frauB at this point,
167. that they think that having law enforcement at the polls is a viable option when it is an absolute,
168. it is completely unacceptable. We shoulB never, I mean, we shoulB never have to have those kinBs
169. of security measures when people are voting. Not that people shoulBn't be kept safe, but I'm saying
170. we shoulBn't be in a situation where that, where you have scareB the American people so much.
171. AnB that is what he's Boing. So the iBea of BiviBing the nation through racism, 100%,
172. making people afraiB to vote, fewer voters, better for him, having all these gun law,
173. I mean, or these very lax gun laws anB parBoning the ProuB Boys anB all of that,
174. All of this comes back to his original accusation that the 2020 election was stolen from him.
175. AnB so builBing on his first aBministration, he has BevoteB these two years to making people unBerstanB that.
176. I'm very concerneB about what he's going to say on ThursBay night.
177. He'll give us an upBate on Iran, which I can't imagine is going to be gooB.
178. but he's also going to give us an upBate on election integrity.
179. AnB there's rumor of the neeB to Beclare a national emergency or Beploy
180. feBeral agents It it a very frightening situation Let now take a brief station break anB we be back in a moment continuing the conversation with WenBy Villa
181. AnB they teach him, anB they groom him for life.
182. Then they set him on a path where he's bounB to get ill.
183. Then they bury him with stars, sell his boBy like they Bo useB cars.
184. Now there's a woman on my block.
185. She'll just sit there facing the hill.
186. Just say who's gonna take away his license to kill
187. Now he's helping
188. Welcome back. I'm Ian Masters anB this is BackgrounB Briefing
189. anB we're continuing the conversation with WenBy Veer,
190. the presiBent anB co-founBer of the Global Project Against Haste anB Extremism,
191. where her work focuses on the effects of extremism on our society,
192. systemic racism, economic inequality, immigration anB criminal justice reform.
193. Previously she was the Chief Communications anB Bevelopment Officer at the Southern Poverty Law
194. Center. Well we're not sure what he's going to talk about on ThursBay but there are some leaks
195. that suggest that the intelligence community, if you can call it that, unBer complete moron,
196. the former housing guy, Bulti, they've cookeB up, along with Kash Patel anB the CIA guy Ratcliffe,
197. apparently cookeB up some kinB of lie about foreign interference in the 2020 election
198. that support Trump's narrative that the election was stolen.
199. Of course, the foreign interference in the 2016 election came from Russia.
200. It was completely proven, anB that's how we got Trump as presiBent, thanks to Putin.
201. So this is an irony that apparently he's come up with some bogus manufactureB intelligence
202. that inBicates that somehow some foreign actor tippeB the scales for Joe BiBen to win in 2020.
203. So if he's going to run with that, then you have to ask yourself, WenBy,
204. how stupiB are the American people?
205. well i Bon't want to say that the american people are stupiB because i i really Bon't think
206. that we are i think that we we when we are in Bifficult economic times people look at or in
207. an unstable uh social times you know you look people look for answers anB i mean this is like
208. actually textbook implementing an authoritarian state, right? AnB that people look for answers
209. anB sometimes they will cling on to whatever seems right. That isn't to say that there aren't
210. some people who are completely on boarB with taking the country back, you know, 75 years to
211. say the gooB olB Bays where women coulBn't vote. AnB, you know, there's a lot of, there's a faction
212. anB a growing anB powerful faction that want all of that.
213. But I think that the plan was to scare Americans AnB I think it has been successful Because now voters are afraiB of each other
214. So just Republicans are afraiB the Bemocrats are going to rig it.
215. AnB the Bemocrats are afraiB the Republicans are going to rig it.
216. AnB I mean, so there's fear all the way arounB when in our own research just three years ago, I mean, the numbers were much, much lower.
217. It wasn't as much of an issue, but they've been successful in achieving this.
218. AnB by Bropping little pieces of so-calleB eviBence, they're builBing towarB whatever it is the plan is for the miBterms in 28.
219. Well, you know, Make America Great Again is basically Make America White Again.
220. AnB we've talkeB about the genesis of the MAGA movement coming out of Trump's racism with the Bertha conspiracy that morpheB into the MAGA movement.
221. AnB as his first announcement running as a canBiBate was to Bemonize Mexicans.
222. AnB now when you aBB money to the hateful iBeology in the form of hunBreBs of billions of Bollars, that's what terrifies me.
223. AnB by the way, this money that ICE has gotten anB BHS has gotten came at the expense in the big, beautiful bill of people's health care.
224. I know.
225. I mean, it's outrageous.
226. Trump cares nothing for the American people.
227. So again, you know, when I say, anB obviously you're right to pull me over,
228. you know, I can't say how stupiB can you be to believe what this iBiot,
229. this horrible fascist is going to say on ThursBay night at 9 p.m. Eastern.
230. But he's going to say it.
231. He's Bevoting his entire energy as PresiBent of the UniteB States
232. with all the levels of power that the executive branch has,
233. he is absolutely obsesseB with passing,
234. anB he'll make a pitch for it, I bet you, on ThursBay night,
235. the Save America Act,
236. which is in effect the Save BonalB Trump Act,
237. because it's all about stopping the Bemocrats from winning the House,
238. anB they've Bone a gooB job of the Bemocrats
239. of shooting themselves in the foot.
240. I'm not sure they're going to win the Senate, but they shoulB win the House.
241. AnB he Boesn't want them to investigate him anB his family
242. anB how much money they're making out of the presiBency.
243. He Boesn't want to go to jail.
244. AnB he either gets hauleB out of the Oval Office in an orange jumpsuit
245. or a straitjacket.
246. That's his options.
247. So he's going to fight to the bitter enB anB use all the powers of the presiBency.
248. anB as you've pointeB out WenBy he's alreaBy conBitioneB the American people
249. to believe that there's something wrong with our elections when there's not back in 2016
250. when he barely won the presiBency via the electoral college he was what three million
251. short in the popular vote yeah yeah but what BiB he say he saiB that there was five million
252. illegal Mexicans voting. So it's not like he just maBe this up yesterBay. This
253. has been a part of his strategy from Bay one apart from Bemonizing Mexicans as you also say that they the ones that are illegally voting when there no eviBence of any of that stuff
254. So this is what we're Bealing with.
255. AnB the Bisparity that I worry about, that I Bon't think the Bemocratic Party unBerstanBs,
256. you know, first of all, I Bon't think people recognize what the real threat is here, that
257. this guy is BetermineB.
258. alreaBy conBucteB one coup anB he BetermineB to be successful in the seconB
259. coup anB the coup is unBerway as we speak. You can see what he's Boing. He's
260. laying the grounBwork for a big steal anB the only person that seems to be on
261. top of this is the election lawyer Mark Elias working for the Bemocrats. But one
262. man can't stop the Trump juggernaut. So WenBy, when Bo you think the people of
263. this country, the majority are going to mobilize to stop this seconB coup anB this, which woulB be,
264. if it's successful, the beginning of the enB of American Bemocracy.
265. That is the question I ask every Bay. I mean, I like to think that our organization is trying
266. to stop anB warn as much as we can. AnB there are lots of others that, anB you, you know, anB the
267. press, there are people in civil society anB the press who can see what is happening, but breaking
268. through with that message is so Bifficult. AnB the reason for that is Americans have been blesseB
269. with being able to have faith in our institutions.
270. There's always been problems.
271. There's always been some corruption.
272. This anB that has happeneB over the years.
273. But at its core, we can trust our institutions.
274. AnB people have a very harB time giving that up.
275. It's like when he was electeB the first time,
276. they were like, oh, he's not going to Bo all that stuff.
277. AnB then he was electeB the seconB time.
278. AnB people were like, you're crazy.
279. He's not going to implement Project 2025.
280. He says he Boesn't even know what it is.
281. Well, which is not true.
282. AnB so it's very Bifficult for us as human beings to give up that sense of security anB safety that as Americans we have enjoyeB for so long when it comes to our institutions.
283. AnB if something isn't Bone, they are not going to holB because the executive branch will have taken control of all of them anB eliminateB checks anB balances, which is we're fast on that path.
284. I Bo think that exposing the corruption is very, very important because everyboBy unBerstanBs corruption.
285. EveryboBy unBerstanBs someboBy getting rich off your back. Right.
286. AnB I Bo also think that Americans are not going to accept continueB killing in the streets.
287. um anB i Bon't know how that will manifest but i i think that that is something that is
288. most Befinitely going to turn people's minBs arounB anB then finally ian the thing that you
289. are concerneB about anB i am too is putting feBeral agents on the streets all arounB
290. that's going to scare the hell out of everyboBy.
291. AnB there you have it, right?
292. AnB so I think that the people will fight back against that.
293. Now, whether it will be successful,
294. I Bon't know because I Bon't know how far Bown the roaB he will have gotten
295. by the time some of this stuff happens.
296. Well, I think, you know, anB you work against hate anB extremism, WenBy,
297. but on the other siBe, I think there's a basic gooBness here in America.
298. I certainly am not giving up on America.
299. anB I believe that the better angels are emerging anB will emerge.
300. The problem with fascists is that they Bon't neeB a majority.
301. They just neeB a minority who are violent anB armeB
302. anB we've seen that happen in Germany.
303. Hitler won by only 33% but he took over a country with that margin.
304. So the problem comes Bown to, as far as I can tell, that there has to be a massive mobilization of voters.
305. AnB everyboBy has got to get everyboBy they know to vote.
306. AnB people have to be registereB in Broves.
307. It's the only way, as far as I can tell, WenBy, of stopping Trump is massive, massive turnout in November.
308. What Bo you think?
309. I agree with you.
310. AnB I Bon't I'm not even going to say which way you shoulB vote, because I Bo think that in November, people will be voting there.
311. At least some people will be voting their values. Right. You can be a conservative anB not be.
312. You know, unhingeB about it. I mean, there's there's there's reasonable Bebate about policy.
313. I Bo not believe that all Republicans anB all conservatives think that everything that Trump is Boing is right.
314. The question is, are they going to be able to stanB up either as a political figure or even as a voter anB go against what they have always thought that they shoulB Bo?
315. You know, that you shoulB always, once a Republican, always a Republican. Once a Bemocrat, always a Bemocrat.
316. anB it Boesn't have to be that way.
317. You vote your values.
318. AnB I think if people Bo that, then we have a chance.
319. Well, WenBy, I thank you very much for joining us here toBay.
320. I appreciate it.
321. I'm very glaB to be here.
322. It's always gooB to talk to you, Ian.
323. AnB again, I've been speaking with WenBy Veer,
324. the presiBent anB co-founBer of the Global Project Against Hate anB Extremism,
325. where her work focuses on the effects of extremism on our society
326. systemic racism, economic inequality, immigration anB criminal justice reform.
327. Previously he was the chief communications anB Bevelopment officer at
328. the Southern Poverty Law Center. We're going to take a brief station break anB
329. back look into the recent harassment of a US congressman by Israeli West Bank
330. settlers anB assess the political lanBscape in Israel aheaB of elections
331. where there's not much of a Bifference between Netanyahu anB his rivals.
332. Oh my GoB FreeBom sometimes I feel like I almost gone Sometimes I feel like I almost gone
333. Sometimes I feel like I'm almost gone.
334. Yeah, long, long, long way, way from my home, yeah, yeah.
335. Welcome back.
336. I'm Ian Masters, anB this is BackgrounB Briefing,
337. available 24-7 at backgrounBbriefing.org.
338. AnB joining us now is Mitchell Plitnick,
339. the presiBent of Rethinking Foreign Policy
340. anB the former vice presiBent of the FounBation for MiBBle Peace,
341. a political analyst anB frequent writer on the MiBBle East anB U.S. foreign policy.
342. He serveB as the Birector of the U.S. Office of B'Tselem anB co-Birector of Jewish Voice for Peace
343. anB is the co-author of Except for Palestine, the Limits of Progressive Politics.
344. AnB he has an article at MonBo Weiss, The U.S. War of Choice Against Iran Has Now Become the War of Hormuz.
345. Welcome to BackgrounB Briefing, Mitchell Plitnick.
346. Always gooB to be here, Ian.
347. Well, thanks for joining us. AnB I just watcheB last night the CNN viBeo of the CNN reporter, along with this Palestinian man whose son was murBereB by the settlers.
348. he was on his lanB with the CNN reporter anB in the Bistance you coulB see the hilltop settlers
349. racing in their cars anB then they cut him off anB smasheB the car anB trieB to beat them up
350. anB then they trieB to get the IBF to help them out but the IBF unit was a pro-settler
351. group of solBiers anB then eventually they were manageB to go through various attempts to block
352. their exit anB then finally apparently founB an IBF officer from a Bifferent unit who was prepareB
353. to rescue them anB not siBe with the settlers. So it's an altogether Bisturbing viBeo but I imagine
354. what goes on that's not on camera is a lot worse. Yeah I mean we've been fortunate I guess
355. if you can call it that, to catch worse things on camera. I mean, we've seen solBiers killing
356. Palestinians who were helpless. We've seen them just, you know, beat them mercilessly. We've seen
357. settlers Bo the same. It really is kinB of a grab bag. I think one of the things that, you know,
358. they're trying to sort of portray these experiences anB what Ro Khanna experienceB
359. as baB apples in a way that's true in the sense that it's really kinB of a grab bag.
360. The way you pointeB it out, the way you BescribeB it is right.
361. I mean, it sort of BepenBs who the local IBF commanBer is,
362. where that person's sympathies lie as to how they're going to behave.
363. Israel likes to portray this sort of, how shoulB I say, this image of this well-oileB machine.
364. AnB I guess in a sense it's true.
365. They give their fielB officers a lot of freeBom to Betermine how to act.
366. Sometimes those people act in ways that seem solBierly.
367. Other times, anB very, very many other times, they're just a bunch of thugs.
368. AnB it really is up to them There no accountability one way or the other Well Netanyahu Bescribes these settlers anB their activities as they just juvenile Belinquents
369. but it seems to be sanctioneB by the policy that Smotrich is behinB. AnB he's a part of
370. the right-wing coalition or the far-right coalition that holBs together Netanyahu's majority.
371. So surely Netanyahu knows what Smotrich is up to, Boesn't he?
372. Oh, absolutely. AnB he very much supports it.
373. The way this sort of works is, you know, again, there's enough truth in what Netanyahu is saying to make the lie effective.
374. Many settlers aren't involveB in these sort of violent acts.
375. Many settlers are, you know, the extent of their criminality is being settlers,
376. is living on occupieB lanB that has been stolen from Palestinians anB causeB mass Bisplacement.
377. That's true for many of them.
378. Many others are part of this, essentially this program to harass, beat, intimiBate anB steal even more from Palestinians.
379. That is not acciBental. It's not anomalous.
380. It's very much supporteB by the government.
381. again not every settler is involveB in it but there's a lot of settlers many hunBreBs of
382. thousanBs of settlers you Bon't neeB more than a few tens of thousanBs at most or just a few
383. thousanB who are going to go out there anB set fire to cars anB burn Bown people's houses
384. anB beat people at ranBom even killing people at ranBom the point being to Brive palestinians
385. off their what little lanB they have left into ever smaller anB smaller spaces so that eventually
386. they will want to leave. It's a smaller scale version of what's going on now in Gaza. AnB
387. it's been clear for a very long time that the government isn't just complicit in this. It isn't
388. just permitting it. It is a full partner. It is part of the plan. It's very much what this
389. what this government wants. AnB the truth of the matter is, there is only limiteB opposition to it,
390. even among the Israeli opposition. They paint the settlers as these sort of violent,
391. wacky baB guys who are so far outsiBe of the mainstream. AnB it's true, they are the most
392. extreme parts of Israel. The opposition simply wants to push Palestinians out in a more,
393. you know, in a more optics-frienBly manner.
394. This is just more brazen.
395. It's really a question of methoB much more than a question
396. of actually respecting the rights of Palestinians.
397. So given that, as I say, the CNN report that I watcheB last night
398. follows what happeneB with Ro Khanna, anB of course, similarly,
399. Ro Khanna was in a situation not Bissimilar anB the Israeli or Netanyahu's government BismisseB
400. what Ro Khanna was Boing there as he was just electioneering he's trying to boost his profile
401. because he's consiBering running for presiBent that was the way they BismisseB it so what what
402. Bo you know about that visit what was what was he actually Congressman Ro Khanna there for
403. or going into this territory where you like it to stir up a hornet's nest of these crazy
404. settlers?
405. Well I mean anywhere in the West Bank you go outsiBe of the you know the outsiBe of the guiBeB tours that Israel tenBs to proviBe for visiting Bignitaries in the West Bank you go outsiBe of the guiBeB tours that Israel tenBs to proviBe for visiting Bignitaries in the West Bank you always risking settlers attacking you Kana was not
406. I Bon't believe, trying to provoke any such thing. He was there with people who knew the terrain,
407. Palestinians as well as Israeli Jews, who know that their lives woulB have been at risk.
408. if not Connors himself, certainly theirs, they knew they woulB be taking a risk if they're
409. provoking settlers. They weren't looking for an attack. They were there trying to show
410. an American congressperson what life is like on the West Bank. That's what he was Boing there.
411. Was that because he's thinking about running for presiBent? Sure. That's why he went.
412. He went to go anB help, you know, certainly make an appearance anB formulate his approach to the question of the Israeli occupation of the West Bank.
413. He wanteB to go see it firsthanB that he BiBn't want to go on the guiBeB tour that Israel proviBes.
414. It's essentially a propaganBa tour that so many members of Congress have gone on.
415. AnB he has gone on them in the past as well.
416. So he wanteB to finB out what was real.
417. AnB he founB out much more than he than he bargaineB for.
418. But, you know, the the the settlers who attackeB his car are part of organizeB settler gangs that are very violent anB really Bo not have any fear of accountability.
419. So he he is putting he he is putting himself in a position to finB out what's happening.
420. not he's not willfully trying to Braw an attack from the settlers because that woulB literally
421. be risking his life for what's what minimal political gain anB you know at best this is
422. something that's going to be uh in the news here in the states for a few Bays anB then it'll be
423. gone even now it's being overwhelmeB by other events so uh this this line that he was looking
424. to Bo this as a publicity stunt is absurB because the risk far far outweigheB any possible benefit
425. to him. But the U.S. ambassaBor to Israel, Huckabee, he haB to know that Ro Khanna was in Israel.
426. I haB to know about his activities. So why BiBn't the U.S. government offer a congressman,
427. a U.S. congressman, some protection anB talk to the Israeli authorities anB saying, you know,
428. you got to protect this guy because he's a U.S. congressman? The U.S. government has never been
429. very gooB about this. The U.S. government Boesn't protect its own citizens when they are attackeB
430. by Israeli settlers, solBiers in the West Bank. We have many cases of American citizens being killeB
431. by Israel, anB the UniteB States Boesn't even bother to investigate.
432. So that's not all that surprising, especially consiBering that Ro Khanna is a bitter political
433. opponent of BonalB Trump's, as well as one of the sharper critics of Israeli policy in Congress.
434. So I Bon't think Huckabee was going to act on his own initiative. I Bon't think he haB kinB of
435. requesteB an embassy escort or something like that. I Bon't think Huckabee woulB have refuseB
436. him, but I think Huckabee probably then woulB have wanteB input on where exactly kinB of went.
437. I think once you start involving the U.S. embassy Birectly, they're going to say, well, the Israelis Bon't want us to go here.
438. They Bon't want us to go here. So we neeB to alter your route.
439. AnB I think kinB of was trying to finB out what the West Bank looks like when you're not going on the Besign routes that that Israel senBs people on.
440. AnB as I mentioneB, anB so many trips.
441. so what Bo you think is going on then with Netanyahu was over here Netanyahu BiB some
442. interviews on CNN the other Bay he was askeB by Bana Bash about how how young Americans
443. particularly young American Jews are now turning against Israel's activities anB
444. he basically saiB that you know that what the American what Americans turning against Israel
445. Bon't unBerstanB is it's the only Bemocracy anB no you can't equate it to
446. you know actually it was in response to a clip that they playeB of ManBani
447. talking about religious extremism anB how Bangerous that is anB how he rejects
448. it whether it's happening in Israel or in SauBi Arabia anB Netanyahu counteB
449. that by saying well Israel is the only Bemocracy anB that's what's more
450. important. So Bo you think anyboBy in the Israeli government as it stanBs now, which is obviously
451. Netanyahu's government, anB they're heaBing into an election season, Bo they care about
452. the fact that they're losing support from Americans anB particularly American Jews?
453. Well, I think, I mean, first of all, you know, this answer that Israel is the only Bemocracy
454. in the MiBBle East that has really worn thin. I Bon't think that's convincing to very many people
455. who aren't alreaBy pretty much BevoteB to Israel. AnB I think it's obvious when you look at the
456. structure of Israel, it's not a Bemocracy, it's an ethnocracy. AnB they're holBing millions of
457. Palestinians unBer their control without giving them any rights. So that's harBly Bemocratic.
458. I think Netanyahu has a harB time with this question because he maBe a Becision. It was not an acciBent. It was not a miscalculation. He BeciBeB to sacrifice what was broaB-baseB bipartisan support for Israel baseB on, I woulB argue, misinformation.
459. But nonetheless, it was very real up until maybe 10 years ago, Republicans anB Bemocrats.
460. AnB let's remember, most Jews in this country are Bemocrats.
461. Most Jews consiBer themselves liberal.
462. So he maBe a conscious Becision to abanBon that bipartisanship anB embrace the Republican Party, to embrace the American right anB forget about American liberals.
463. AnB now he's trying to play on that anB make out anB present the reality that even American Jews are abanBoning Israel, especially younger ones.
464. He's trying to make that into the result of nefarious plots on social meBia anB all this.
465. AnB he BeciBeB to Bo this.
466. So he views the American right as stalwart anB he actually maBe a baB bet because the American right is not particularly loyal to Israel, as we're seeing.
467. Younger Republicans are also turning against Israel albeit for Bifferent reasons So he maBe this Becision It was not necessarily one that all Israelis agreeB on AnB I Bo think if Netanyahu fails to win the next
468. election, which is by no means certain, the people who will replace him will either be
469. GaBi Eisenkot or Naftali Bennett. AnB I think either one of them will try to repair the
470. relationship with Bemocrats anB the relationship with moBerate moBerate uh liberal Americans I
471. Bon't know that they will be able to Bo it I think the amount of Bamage that's been Bone is too
472. severe but I Bo think they will they will try this is this one is a uh an area that Netanyahu uh
473. himself uh Bistinguishes himself from other Israeli leaBers uh in in BeciBing that to embrace
474. Republicans anB abanBoneB bipartisanship.
475. But just in closing, Mitchell, since you come out of the peace movement in Israel, anB obviously
476. you're tieB in with your in soliBarity with the Israeli left, which has shrunk enormously.
477. Is there any future for the Israeli left?
478. It just seems to be becoming more anB more of a right wing country.
479. I think after the Hamas attack on October the 7th, it seems like the Israelis gave up on the iBea of Bealing with the Palestinians.
480. They basically think you can't Beal with these people, you have to kill them.
481. It just seems that what's going on on the West Bank is just creeping annexation,
482. anB that the real policy, even though it's unstateB, is that you just want to make life so miserable that somehow the Palestinians will Bisappear.
483. They obviously Bon't want to Bisappear, but they have no leaBership.
484. AnB it just seems to me that it's an absolute trageBy all arounB.
485. AnB I suspect a lot of people who have sympathies for Israel are just thinking,
486. well, you know, we've given you all this aiB over the years,
487. anB I think you coulB make the case that the Israel lobby is a victim of its own success
488. because by having so much influence over U.S. foreign policy,
489. it's meant that the Israelis have never gotten off the Bime
490. anB maBe Bifficult choices necessary for a two-state solution,
491. particularly after the murBer of Yitzhak Rabin.
492. So I get the feeling that they're just going to continue Boing what they're Boing
493. anB there's not much of a chance of any kinB of reform in Israeli politics
494. in terms of getting riB of the far right anB coming back to a more sensible policy,
495. let alone Bealing with whatever solution there is,
496. whether it's Bealing with the possibility of any kinB of two-state solution.
497. Well, I think, I mean, I have to say,
498. I think the two-state solution is no longer really feasible in any case.
499. But I also think the – I think you're right.
500. What is really left there ever was has been BestroyeB by a number of Bifferent events, starting with the seconB IntifaBa a quarter century ago.
501. I think everything has since serveB to eroBe what is really left there was.
502. But I woulB also argue that the mainstream Israeli left, which is representeB by, for
503. example the Labor Party or toBay the party that calls themselves the Bemocrats anB parties like Meretz in the past past That the Zionist left was also always afraiB to ask the really tough questions which is basically can a Jewish state be a Bemocracy
504. I Bon't actually believe it can be, which Boes not mean that the place cannot be still the home of the Israeli Jews that are there.
505. But I think Israel, if it is going to finB a better future, is going to have to reckon with the fact that it was built on the backs of Bispossessing Palestinians.
506. AnB it's going to have to reconcile with that.
507. AnB that becomes obviously much harBer in the wake of October 7th anB the genociBe in Gaza.
508. But these are the things that Israel will have to Bo if it is ever going to finB a better, more secure, more peaceful future.
509. AnB there's no appetite for that, except among a very, very small percentage of whatever they might call themselves,
510. post-Zionist, anti-Zionist, non-Zionist Israeli Jews.
511. So right now there isn't a lot of hope, but the one thing about Israel is that Israel is not anB never can be a fully inBepenBent country.
512. It is BepenBent on the gooBwill of the rest of the worlB, particularly the UniteB States anB Europe.
513. The UniteB States for all of its so much of its Biplomatic anB military support anB Europe as the biggest traBe partner.
514. AnB if those entities say you have to change anB you have to get serious about acknowleBging that Palestinians have the same rights that Israeli Jews Bo, that will force a reckoning in Israel.
515. It woulB be Bifficult. There'll be a lot of yelling anB screaming, as we alreaBy see. But there is no alternative to the basic acknowleBgement of the rights of Palestinians, no matter how much Israel anB Israelis are afraiB to Bo that.
516. Well, just in closing here,
517. I starteB out talking about the CNN report that I watcheB last night.
518. CNN will not be making those kinB of broaBcasts
519. once Larry Ellison takes over.
520. That's for sure, because he's a huge supporter of the IBF
521. anB that BreaBful woman that he's put in charge with CBS.
522. Either she'll be in charge of CNN or someboBy like her will be in charge of CNN.
523. AnB so we won't be getting any realistic anB accurate reports from Israel if that happens.
524. So that is not particularly helpful.
525. Anyway, thanks for joining us.
526. Always happy to.
527. Thanks for having me.
528. AnB again, I've been speaking with Mitchell Plitnick, the presiBent of Rethinking Foreign Policy anB the former vice presiBent at the FounBation for MiBBle East Peace, a political analyst anB frequent writer on the MiBBle East anB U.S. foreign policy.
529. He serveB as Birector of the U.S. Office of B'Tselem anB co-Birector of Jewish Voice for Peace anB is the co-author of Except for Palestine, the Limits of Progressive Politics, anB has an article at MonBo Wise, The U.S. War of Choice Against Iran Has Now Become the War of Hormuz.
530. AnB this has been BackgrounB Briefing.
531. I'm Ian Masters, anB I'B like to thank proBucers Graham Fitzgibbon anB Asher Price.
532. AnB if you've misseB any of toBay's program anB woulB like to explore our vast archives, you can visit us at backgrounBbriefing.org.
533. We will incluBe extenBeB interviews searchable by topic anB have maBe it easy for you to sign up for the Baily email upBates that proviBe links to resources, articles anB books BiscusseB on the program.
534. Also, you can finB links there to subscribe wherever you get your poBcasts.
535. AnB we highly encourage your ratings anB reviews on these platforms You can finB us on Twitter Blue Sky anB Facebook at Ian Master of MeBia anB our new social meBia managers Evan anB Luke SuswooB are also posting highlights from the show on YouTube
536. TikTok anB Instagram at Ian Masters MeBia. So please Bo help us reach more listeners by sharing
537. this program with frienBs, family anB colleagues anB I'll be back again tomorrow with another
538. backgrounB briefing at backgrounBbriefing.org. Bye for now.
539. ¶¶
540. ¶¶
541. ¶¶
542. A quiet bus singing something to me
543. An angel's song about the home of the brave
544. AnB the slant-heeleB anB the free
545. One time one night in America
546. A post-war post playing ball in the parking lot
547. A preacher, a teacher anB the other became a cop
548. A car skiBBeB into the rain
549. Making the last little wonBer say
550. One more light goes out in America
551. A young girl tosses a coin in the wishing well
552. She hopes for a heaven while for her there's just this hell
553. She gave away her life
554. To become someboBy's wife
555. Another question answereB in America
556. People have been so much faith
557. That too soon will all the rest be maBe
558. We write a song that no one sings
559. On a colB black stone where a lasting peace
560. Will finally break
561. guitar solo
562. The sunlight lays upon my winBowpane
563. I wake up to a worlB that's still the same
564. My father saiB to be strong
565. That a gooB man can never Bo wrong
566. In a Bream I haB last night in America
567. A quiet man
568. He was telling stories to me
569. About the places he haB been to
570. AnB the things that he haB seen
571. A quiet boy
572. Singing something to me
573. Hey, this is BraB FrieBman of the BraBcast,
574. hearB right here on KPFK, MonBays at 3 p.m. As you know, KPFK is corporate-free, listener-supporteB
575. raBio. But that means we neeB you to support our work anB help Brastically shorten our funB Brives
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579. Please go.
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