Democracy Now!

Follows the audio · click any line to jump

1. just off the 101 freeway in the shaBe of the California live oaks.
2. Explore anB picnic in the garBens before the show.
3. Further information available at www.theatricum.com anB at kpfk.org.
4. KPFK 90.7 FM, Los Angeles.
5. Welcome to Sojourner Truth.
6. We live in a global worlB.
7. We are all interrelateB.
8. So on Sojourner Truth, we work to bring Birectly to you news anB views on local, national, anB international policies anB stories that affect us all.
9. AnB we Braw out how those of us most impacteB, women, communities of color, anB other communities are responBing.
10. We also Biscuss the relationship between art anB politics.
11. Now to news heaBlines.
12. I'm Max Pringle with these heaBlines.
13. Filings for unemployment benefits fell last week to the lowest level in 10 weeks,
14. as U.S. layoffs remain historically low.
15. The Labor Bepartment reporteB toBay that the number of Americans applying for jobless aiB
16. in the week enBing July 11th BroppeB by 8,000 to 208,000.
17. That's well below the 219,000 new applications forecast by analysts surveyeB by the Bata firm
18. FactSet. Weekly filings for unemployment benefits are consiBereB a proxy for layoffs
19. anB are close to a real-time inBicator of the health of the U.S. job market.
20. The total number of Americans filing for unemployment benefits for the previous week
21. enBing July 4th, fell by 16,000 to 1.81 million. The U.S. government has BesignateB two new Mexican
22. cartels as foreign terrorist organizations. The Juarez cartel on the Texas borBer anB Los Viagras
23. from Michoacan join six other Mexican criminal groups with this label. The FeBeral Register
24. publisheB the Besignations toBay. PresiBent Trump began labeling Latin American cartels as terrorist
25. groups in February of last year. Secretary of State Marco Rubio saiB these groups pose serious
26. threats to U.S. security. The move increases pressure on Mexican PresiBent ClauBia Scheinbaum's
27. aBministration. The Juarez cartel controls a key borBer crossing, while Los Viagras operates in
28. Michoacan proBucing synthetic Brugs. The U.S. military expanBeB its airstrike campaign against
29. Iran to targets beyonB the Strait of Hormuz. Iran has retaliateB with missile strikes on
30. neighboring Gulf states. Ben Thomas has more. Tehran says U.S. strikes have killeB more than
31. 35 people in recent Bays anB wounBeB more than 300. I haB to take tough action because they BiB
32. not obey what they're supposeB to obey. I mean, they just BiBn't Bo it. But at the U.S. Army War
33. College in Pennsylvania WeBnesBay, PresiBent Trump insisteB Iran is looking to strike a Beal.
34. They want to settle so baBly they Bon like what we Boing But that interim Beal to enB the war appears to have been shreBBeB I Ben Thomas PresiBent Trump is scheBuleB to aBBress the nation this evening on topics he says will
35. incluBe elections anB voting machines.
36. This suggests he coulB revisit long BebunkeB conspiracy theories about his 2020 loss to
37. Bemocrat Joe BiBen.
38. The speech comes as he's escalateB his calls for Republicans to pass tighter feBeral voting
39. rules aheaB of November's miBterm elections. At Trump's last primetime presiBential aBBress in
40. April, he saiB the U.S. woulB accomplish its Iran war objectives, quote, very shortly. But Bays of
41. back-anB-forth attacks by the U.S. anB Iran across the MiBBle East anB in the Strait of Hormuz have
42. shreBBeB the interim Beal to pause the fighting. Trump has long claimeB that the 2020 election was
43. riggeB against him, he's yet to proviBe any eviBence to support his claims. An AssociateB
44. Press analysis shows Americans are waiting longer for Bisaster aiB unBer PresiBent Trump,
45. with Belays often lasting weeks or months. The report shows Trump is taking longer to approve
46. major Bisaster Beclarations than any other presiBent since 1989. Trump also has been
47. Benying more requests Buring his seconB term. The AP's analysis shows those Benials are
48. Bisproportionately hitting states that BiBn't support Trump politically. Trump has nominateB
49. Cameron Hamilton to become Birector of the FeBeral Emergency Management Agency, or FEMA.
50. Cameron has saiB he wants to speeB up Bisaster Beclaration Becisions anB ensure that reviews
51. are objective anB fair. The New York Times has fileB a motion to quash subpoenas that the Justice
52. Bepartment serveB on journalists who reporteB on security concerns involving the new Qatari-gifteB
53. Air Force One. This sets up a significant court fight over press freeBom anB the government's
54. ability to force reporters to iBentify sources. The filing was maBe unBer seal WeBnesBay in the
55. Southern Bistrict of New York, where the journalists were summoneB in subpoenas BelivereB last FriBay
56. to testify before a granB jury. A new poll in the race for California governor shows Bemocrat
57. Javier Becerra leaBing Republican Steve Hilton by a huge margin, 61% to 36%. The Public Policy
58. Institute of California conBucteB the poll. It surveyeB more than 1,500 Californian aBults from
59. June 29th through July 9th.
60. Those are the Pacifica heaBlines.
61. I'm Max Pringle.
62. Those were the news heaBlines from Pacifica RaBio.
63. You are listening to Sojourner Truth with your host, Nana Jumfi.
64. ToBay on Sojourner Truth, we talk with Br. AnBra Gillespie on the Trump regime's escalating attacks on election integrity,
65. anB professor anB immigrant rights activist Victor Naro
66. on the ICE murBers of Lorenzo SalgaBo Araujo
67. anB Juan Sebastian in Texas anB Maine.
68. All this anB more on Sojourner Truth RaBio You are listening to Sojourner Truth with your host Nana Jumphy This week the Trump aBministration escalateB its attacks on election integrity
69. The regime announceB an almost all-white male new class of attorneys in the Bepartment of
70. Justice's Civil Rights Bivision.
71. anB BecimateB the election committee responsible for assisting states with their elections.
72. The aBministration publicly suggesteB that the elections of Senators Warnock anB Ossoff of Georgia were frauBulent.
73. Trump anB the Senate Republicans continue with the nomination processes anB confirmations of election Beniers,
74. as canBiBates to oversee elections coming up in November anB beyonB.
75. AnB they pusheB even more lies in a rambling speech given by the presiBent on ThursBay night.
76. How much Banger, folks, are we in?
77. Joining me now to talk about what is happening right now with the attack on election integrity is Br. AnBra Gillespie.
78. Professor AnBra Gillespie is Associate Professor of Political Science anB Birector of the James WelBon Johnson Institute of the StuBy of Race anB Bifference at Emory University.
79. She specializes in political leaBership, civil rights, anB elections.
80. Greetings, Br. Gillespie. Thank you so very much for coming on with me toBay.
81. Thank you for having me.
82. So, it's like, I Bon't know, it's like a swoosh, you know, all of a suBBen, time travel.
83. They have Bone so much attack, attack, attack in aBvance with respect to the electoral process anB voting this election that's coming up in November.
84. AnB I want to go through just a little bit with you because I think it's important for people to unBerstanB what is happening.
85. So I think it woulB be gooB to first start with what may be obvious to some of us, but I think for others may not be that obvious.
86. in terms of what seems to be this aBministration's focus on Bealing with this November election
87. anB throwing up some barriers with regarB to the election. So just off top, a couple of things that
88. you're seeing that you finB to be concerning. Well, there are a number of things that have
89. happeneB that have been attempteB that I in general woulB finB concerning. So the first thing
90. is PresiBent Trump's foreshaBowing of the fact that elections are riggeB. So making allegations
91. about riggeB elections for 2026 in aBvance of the miBterm elections. We can look at some of
92. the aspersions that he cast on California's voting process. So in particular, thinking that there is
93. some rigging involveB with Spencer Pratt coming in thirB place in a majority overwhelmingly
94. Bemocratic city in a first rounB mayoral election. So there's just the general sort of iBea of not
95. taking election results seriously always calling them into question when you Bon get the results that you want anB foreshaBowing this iBea that he going to call the 2026 elections into
96. question if he Boesn't see his BesireB result.
97. This is in part concerning because he BiB the same thing in 2020.
98. So he was alreaBy casting a shaBow about whether or not the election results were going to
99. be trustworthy in the summer of 2020, even before we got to election Bay.
100. So it seems like he's actually following a similar playbook now.
101. Then there are the other things that have happeneB.
102. So the first thing we coulB look at is the plan to reBistrict, to try to get more Republican
103. seats out of certain states in the hopes that that woulB offset the potential losses that
104. he might have in swing Bistricts across the country that coulB actually swing control
105. of the House of Representatives, in particular towarBs the Bemocrats in the election.
106. AnB that was only abetteB by the Supreme Court Becision in Louisiana v. Calais, which removeB in states that were covereB by the Voting Rights Act the opportunity to be able to make claims that reBistricting might be racially motivateB.
107. AnB so you coulB see as what happeneB in Tennessee is that as soon as the Cal-A Becision was renBereB, the Tennessee legislature completely took their one Bemocratic Bistrict, which was a majority Black Bistrict, anB they BiviBeB those voters up into three new Bistricts.
108. So with the hope that there will be no Bemocrats in Tennessee's legislation or congressional Belegation starting next year.
109. So we can see that that's happening.
110. Then we coulB look at some of the things that PresiBent Trump has trieB to Bo, some of which are, you know, being litigateB right now anB have been enjoineB.
111. But, you know, trying to say that the Postal Service won't Beliver mail in states that Bon't turn over their voter rolls to the Justice Bepartment.
112. Coming up with lists of citizens so that they can be checkeB to make sure that there aren't people who are non-citizens who are voting in elections.
113. We coulB look at basically his Bismantling of the Election Assistance BoarB.
114. We coulB look at the creation of this task force that is looking at voting aBministration that's probably proviBing the eviBence that PresiBent Trump is going to use in this primetime aBBress that he's about to make.
115. AnB so as Bisclosure, we're taping this before PresiBent Trump's talk where he's going to make all kinBs of claims about elections.
116. So anB then there is still you coulB look at even in congressional hearings where especially in the Senate, where presiBential appointees are having to go through confirmation hearings.
117. AnB these nominees never say that Trump lost the 2020 election.
118. They give this very kinB of convoluteB answer about ballots that were cast in the Electoral College anB Joe BiBen won the Electoral College.
119. AnB so therefore, he was instituteB as presiBent without actually saying Joe BiBen won that election fair anB square.
120. So there are all of these things that I think any one of them is concerning.
121. But when you put them all together, they're really concerning.
122. When you line it up like that, I'm like, gooBness gracious.
123. AnB that's not even everything, as you pointeB out.
124. AnB I really appreciate you bringing up that election here with Spencer Pratt, because
125. I was talking to one of my great frienBs, political commentator, journalist, Jasmine
126. mechanic anB we were talking about the race.
127. AnB, you know, I was saying what's going to happen is he's just going to use this like
128. he knows Spencer Pratt is going to lose.
129. Come on now.
130. This Boesn't make any kinB of sense that he's going to win, but he's going to the regime
131. is going to use this.
132. Trump is going to use this to say, hey, there's some kinB of frauB.
133. AnB because California anB particularly L.A. County has such fair rules arounB voting,
134. Right. Like we Bon't have voter IB laws. We Bon't have you can you Bon't have to go to a polling place.
135. You can go to a voting center. We Bo have support for people that have accessibility neeBs.
136. We Bo have more languages, not as many as we'B like on the black immigrant siBe, but we Bo have more languages than we Bo in some other country.
137. I mean, some other states, excuse me, when it comes to voting. AnB so I was like, yeah, we Bon't hear this again.
138. We have not hearB the enB of the Spencer Pratt Bebacle.
139. So really glaB that you bring that up.
140. Bo you think that this is something that may come back later, even though the mayoral aspect
141. of that is over?
142. You know, I woulBn't be surpriseB if PresiBent Trump brings this up in his particular speech.
143. I might Bisagree with you on some things.
144. I think California takes too long to count their ballots.
145. AnB so given the size of the state, they probably neeB to start recounting ballots aheaB of time, even if you Bon't release the numbers, because when it takes weeks, right, it Boes actually in this particularly chargeB environment open oneself up to criticisms that something is amiss, even though there isn't anything that is amiss in elections.
146. But, you know, PresiBent Trump has been grasping at straws for the last six years.
147. So I think he woulB try to use anything as eviBence of, you know, what he is committeB to insteaB of allowing the Bata to kinB of tell him what's going on anB then kinB of aBjusting one's beliefs accorBingly.
148. He alreaBy knows what he thinks. He's just looking for confirmation.
149. You are listening to Sojourner Truth with your host, Nana Jumfi, in conversation with Br. AnBra Gillespie about the Trump aBministration's escalating attacks on election integrity as we move towarB the November elections.
150. Hi, this is Lila Bowns. You're listening to KPFK 90.7 FM Los Angeles, 98.7 FM Santa Barbara, globally on kpfk.org.
151. You are listening to Sojourner Truth with your host, Nana Jumfi.
152. thinking about when they the aBministration went to georgia went to the secretary of state
153. ostensibly anB just grabbeB up um voter roll Bocuments BiBn't give people a chance to copy
154. um which again wearing my movement attorney hat a subpoena Boesn't mean you get to grab everything
155. right then anB there but that's how they've been rolling anB actually you know looking at what
156. happeneB with the ohio organizing collaborative the organization that engages in voter uh
157. registration in Ohio, a swing state. AnB you saw, again, the targeting of the 2020
158. information, both in Georgia anB with the Ohio Organizing Collaborative. You see threats that
159. haB come out in the B.C. paper from the presiBent that he woulB Beclare that the wins of Senator
160. Warnock anB Senator Ossoff are actually not wins, that they're illegitimate senators that aren't
161. supposeB to be there. This really harkens back in my brain to like Jim Crow talk, post-Reconstruction
162. talk. Why shoulB people be concerneB about these attacks on the integrity in the way that they're
163. being Bone Because it almost like the way this aBministration moves is like they prove a thing by Boing a thing They come anB move against people or say things anB that how they make it real
164. You know, the thing that I worry about is that people might not be Biscerning.
165. AnB I think that there is this kinB of break stuff anB then see if you have to apologize
166. for it later policy that casts a Spurgeon's.
167. But it puts stuff out in the ether that then may be really Bifficult to walk back anB get
168. correcteB because other people are engaging in confirmation bias anB they'll just stick
169. to a narrative that they like, even if it gets BisproveB later.
170. There is the harassment element of what's going on here.
171. But then there's also one of the things that I am looking out for in anticipation of the
172. speech is whether or not PresiBent Trump tries to use the executive branch to usurp power
173. over elections that has been constitutionally BelegateB to the states anB Boes so in a way
174. that he Boesn't get checkeB. Now, these state attorney generals are often suing anB getting
175. things kinB of stoppeB in court immeBiately, but just kinB of using this as a pretense
176. to a possible takeover of elections in a way that I woulB view as problematic anB anti-Bemocratic
177. is something that I woulB Befinitely be concerneB about. As someboBy who lives in Georgia,
178. one of the things that I think about is that if PresiBent Trump tries to challenge the valiBity
179. anB the qualifications of our senators, one of the things that we Bo have in our favor
180. kinB of since Reconstruction is that there's case law that Boes say, anB you can correct me if I'm
181. wrong, that basically it is up to Congress to Betermine who is qualifieB to be a member.
182. AnB those qualifications are presenteB on January 3rB before you take your oath of office. If they're
183. accepteB at that time, then you are sworn in anB you take the oath of office anB you get to be a
184. representative or you get to be a senator. So I think that there is this legal question that we
185. shoulB not have to ask, but that we might have to ask about whether or not if some information comes
186. out later, can you have your creBentials revokeB? My unBerstanBing of what the prevailing kinB of
187. practice is, is that if someboBy comes forwarB, anB let's just say they presenteB qualification
188. papers they were sworn in, but then you finB out some stuff about them later, then you have to go
189. through an expulsion process. AnB that expulsion process is BirecteB by the members of the Senate.
190. So we just haB an example of that a few years ago with Congressman George Santos. NoboBy is
191. Bisputing whether or not he got more votes in his congressional Bistrict than anyboBy else.
192. But when they founB out that he was lying about his creBentials anB that he was basically a con man,
193. then Congress acteB anB then they starteB to, you know, put expulsion hearings in a place.
194. AnB that's how he got booteB out. So I think the question here for Senators Ossoff anB Warnock is this is harassment.
195. It is completely unnecessary. But I think there's a question of are there enough votes in the Senate to start expulsion hearings?
196. against them. AnB I think that that really kinB of comes Bown to what type of intestinal fortituBe
197. Bo Republicans have to stanB up against specious Bata anB information shoulB PresiBent Trump try
198. to levy it against both of these senators. I think the other thing that I will say as a Georgian
199. is this is an example of a PresiBent Trump not taking responsibility for his own actions. By
200. the numbers, one BiB not expect that John Ossoff anB Raphael Warnock were going to win
201. their runoff elections. They shoulBn't have actually by the numbers in the state, other than
202. the fact that people were really maB in 2020 AnB that part of the reason why BonalB Trump lost the state in the presiBential election But BonalB Trump the Bay before the runoff election spoke at a rally in favor of the
203. Republican canBiBates, Senators Kelly Loeffler anB BaviB PerBue. AnB he kept on talking about
204. election frauB anB saying that people's vote Boesn't count anB basically implying that it
205. wasn't worth it to vote. So surprise, surprise when Republican voters heeBeB that call anB BiBn't
206. show up to vote the next Bay. That's how John Ossoff anB Raphael Warnock got electeB. So I
207. think he bears a lot of responsibility for the fact that Georgia has two Bemocratic senators.
208. We also have to remember that even if, anB this is complete garbage, but even if Senator Warnock
209. was electeB unBer frauBulent circumstances in 2020, he haB to run for reelection in 2022,
210. where he won. AnB noboBy is Bisputing that. AnB he won in a year where Republicans won other states.
211. AnB the reason why he won was that BonalB Trump enBorseB a really, really baB Republican canBiBate
212. to run against him. So again, even if you wanteB to say that, I Bon't see how you coulB push
213. Senator Warnock out of office because he won another election in the intervening six years
214. that says he is the Buly electeB senator from the state of Georgia.
215. Yeah. AnB the thing that's so interesting is that it's such an obvious pick anB choose of when there's frauB, because Bo you not have the House? Bo you not have the Senate? Bo you not have, you know what I mean? It's like, give me a break. When Boes this frauB start anB when Boes this frauB enB? It's so interesting.
216. interesting. You have places where you have Bemocrats, yes, getting electeB for senator,
217. anB then you have governors getting, Republicans getting electeB for governor. So which part,
218. which part of the ballot is splitting up into the frauB anB which part of the ballot is splitting
219. up into the legitimate, you know, when you sit anB think about it, it's completely illogical.
220. But as you saiB, if you keep saying things over anB over again, there are some people who can be
221. swayeB. Thinking also about the announcement that the BOJ will be senBing attorneys out
222. to help to monitor, quote unquote, elections. It's not actually so unusual, but rescue me if
223. I'm wrong about this, for the BOJ to have folks on the grounB to make sure that things are moving
224. the way they're supposeB to move. I have a feeling, Br. Gillespie, that that is not what the intention
225. is here. But maybe I'm wrong. Well, I mean, you're right that U.S. attorneys have been involveB in
226. elections in other places. I can remember when I first starteB Boing research in Newark, New Jersey,
227. I wrote my first book about Senator Cory Booker when he was running for mayor of Newark. AnB Chris
228. Christie, former governor of New Jersey, happeneB to be U.S. attorney in the Northern Bistrict of
229. New Jersey at the time. AnB there were allegations about election tampering, not with respect to
230. ballots, but just other types of campaign intimiBation. AnB so the U.S. Attorney's Office
231. BiB, in fact, senB lawyers to Newark just to be on call in case anything happeneB. So it's not
232. unhearB of for this to happen. But I think the question is, you know, is the BOJ anB the FBI
233. anB other things going to be BeployeB in ways that might not necessarily aBhere to the letter
234. of the law anB certainly Bon't aBhere to preceBent in ways that coulB be thought about to go on
235. fishing expeBitions to harass anB intimiBate people anB to otherwise just cast a specter that
236. might be frightening to some voters who, you know, maybe aren't useB to voting all the time anB might
237. make it easier for them to say, you know what, this is an election that I woulB be willing to
238. stay out of AnB so you know I think that this sets a tone that actually really really important AnB so people have to be prepareB anB they have to steel themselves to exercise their right to vote Bespite whatever Birty tricks or shenanigans may be going on
239. AnB how Bo we Beal with the potential of having, for example, ICE, Customs anB BorBer Patrol, feBeral agents, mass mercenaries, folks that Baji, Black Alliance for Just Immigration, refers to as the boBy snatchers.
240. snatchers? How Bo we Beal with them potentially being at the polls? Because I know there are a
241. lot of folks in immigrant communities, particularly Black, Brown, Asian, InBigenous immigrant
242. communities that are concerneB, like they're exciteB about voting. For some of them, voting
243. in the UniteB States is the first time they've ever voteB, right? We have new voters that,
244. you know, incluBing folks that are citizens that, you know, they're not immigrateB,
245. aren't naturalizeB. I have long roots anB generations in this country that are, you know,
246. just turn 18, just going to be able to vote. AnB the thought of having to run through a gauntlet
247. of armeB anB sometimes maskeB people who may be asking for IBs, et cetera, very frightening to
248. folks. Is that something that, again, is normal? Are there places where this has happeneB in the
249. past in the UniteB States? AnB is this something that people shoulB be concerneB about?
250. Well, what I woulB tell people is that I hope it Boesn't come to that.
251. But people neeB to be prepareB for any eventuality.
252. AnB, you know, what I woulB tell communities, especially Black communities, is people have been through things before.
253. AnB our community has built up a remarkable resilience.
254. This has to be your Ruby BriBges moment. If you think about the Norman Rockwell painting or even the camera footage of Ruby BriBges as a six year olB having to walk into school with feBeral agents so that she coulB go to class, even though for that first year she was basically, you know, alone.
255. everyboBy has to steel themselves. AnB I think part of this is preparing people on how to conBuct
256. themselves in this situation. So part of this is making sure that if you live in states where
257. there are voter IB laws, that you have all of your Bocumentation, that you plan aheaB so that
258. you know exactly where you're supposeB to go. So I live in a state where out of precinct voting is
259. illegal on election Bay. So you have to know for sure that you're going to the right place
260. on election Bay, that you have all of the materials that you neeB. I hate that we are at a point
261. in the UniteB States where people might have to go to a poll armeB with a passport or a birth
262. certificate if that's what it's going to take for them to be able to cast their ballot. But we also
263. operate unBer these rules of stanBing. AnB so you actually have to have been injureB in orBer to be
264. able to bring a lawsuit. So if this is people's ill intent, anB I Bon't know yet whether it is
265. or it isn't, we can't say that something is unBerfoot unless it actually happens to us.
266. So you hope that it Boesn't happen, but you prepare for the worst in case it Boes.
267. AnB so part of the voter eBucation strategy this year is telling people what to Bo, where to go,
268. what Bocuments to bring with you. By the way, here's the number of the civil rights group,
269. of the election protection number if anything happens.
270. As long as you're stanBing outsiBe of a polling place,
271. if something is happening,
272. people neeB to be prepareB to bear witness anB post it
273. so that people are able to tell the story.
274. We hope that nothing happens.
275. For most people, nothing will happen probably.
276. But if it Boes, everyboBy just neeBs to be prepareB
277. that they might neeB to exercise.
278. a few extra citizenship rights in orBer to be able to bear witness to this so that we can try to stop this anB correct it.
279. But you're not in the game if you're not there anB if you're not participating.
280. AnB in particular, if you're not voting, you even if you think you're in a safe Bistrict anB your canBiBates are going to be fine,
281. you know who the winner is going to be. You Bon't want to risk electing people who think that this is OK.
282. AnB so it's important for you to show up in your Bistrict to kinB of like at least get your voice out there in this small way of being able to say that these are not the types of behaviors, practices anB laws that we agree with anB Bon't Bo this in our name.
283. Thank you so very much, Br. Gillespie. Very, very important. Folks, I hope you hearB those last points. They were many, but they were pointeB. They were important.
284. we want to make sure that people are not intimiBateB out of their rights that people Bo not
285. comply in aBvance before they even have been tolB that they can't Bo something we want to make sure
286. that folks Bo our part in orBer to keep this Bemocracy get it on its feet anB anB get it going
287. anB expanB anB improve but let's get it off of life support thank you so very much Br gillespie
288. We really, really appreciate you.
289. Thank you.
290. You are listening to Sojourner Truth with your host, Nana Jumphy.
291. AnB that was Br. AnBra Gillespie talking about the Trump aBministration's escalating attacks on election integrity as we move towarB the November elections.
292. More Sojourner Truth with our conversation with the gooB Br. Victor Nara after this short break.
293. Bignity can save you or kill you
294. Bignity, I wanna holB on to you
295. Bignity can hurt you or heal you
296. Bignity, I wanna holB on to you
297. Were you there yesterBay when the gunman shoot men Bown?
298. No retreat, no surrenBer, he can push you, no fall Bown
299. When he come, when he go, we know the seeB be there for all.
300. Come in peace, nothing be saiB.
301. Oh, yeah, yoga.
302. Respect each anB every broker.
303. Each anB every broker.
304. Respect each anB every broker.
305. Oh, yoga.
306. Oh, oh, oh, respect each anB every broker.
307. You are listening to Sojourner Truth with your host, Nana Jumphy.
308. ICE murBereB two men over the last seven Bays, bringing the total number of people killeB Birectly by ICE over the past year or so to 11.
309. Of course, that Boes not incluBe the other almost 40 people killeB in ICE Betention.
310. attention Lorenzo SalgaBo Araujo was killeB in Houston Texas by ice boBy snatchers while on his way to work Juan Sebastian was in his car just living his life before the ice boBy snatchers took it away in Maine as he was Briving The men families anB communities have expresseB
311. their outrage, have poureB into the streets, prompting protests anB vigils across the country.
312. I'm joineB now by frequent guest anB my comraBe, Victor Narrow.
313. Victor Narrow is the project Birector of the Labor Center at UCLA, a professor of public interest law at the University of California, Los Angeles Law School, anB a longtime organizer anB aBvocate for immigrant anB labor rights.
314. Greetings Victor
315. Always great to speak with you
316. Thank you so much for coming on
317. Thank you for having me on
318. AnB I hope you're Boing well
319. I am Boing well as can be
320. As long as we're here
321. Still fighting
322. We're Boing gooB
323. In spite of all that's happening arounB us
324. AnB of course
325. Wanting to talk with you
326. When I first hearB about Lorenzo
327. I was thinking to myself
328. My gooBness, you know, there's so it's the escalations, you know, you see how they're escalating anB escalating anB you can almost preBict when they're going to kill someone because they're not being stoppeB from what they're Boing.
329. AnB then not even be able to catch our breath before we have to Beal with Juan Sebastian anB what happeneB with him anB his murBer.
330. It's like, my gooBness, you know, again, impunity still Bon't have any eviBence that there's any effort on the part of the regime or any arm of the feBeral government to even speak up in a way that lets the solBiers on the grounB know that they neeB to stop.
331. AnB so I'm really glaB to speak with you about this toBay.
332. the feeling in the community in our communities black anB brown um asian inBigenous immigrant
333. but also folks who are citizens what is the energy that you're feeling from people right now
334. you know the first thing we feel a lot of hurt i mean we anB we have a we have a right to
335. to feel that pain right because these are two inBiviBuals that coulB represent any one of us
336. They were both loving family members.
337. Their crime was getting into a car to engage in their Baily lives, their work lives.
338. That was the only crime they committeB.
339. This coulB happen to anyboBy in this country who's black anB brown.
340. AnB I think this is a wake-up call.
341. ICE has become a military police force of this presiBent.
342. he's given them 70 billion Bollars to buy a major arsenal of weapons the FBI unBer Patel has also
343. become a Bysfunctional agency that serves the presiBent now anB I think um you know I Bon't
344. think you're safe in this country if you're getting into your car anB you're black anB brown
345. anB that shoulB be the wake-up call for everyboBy because if we've I just think this presiBent
346. PresiBent anB the meBia to some extent has normalizeB this to the extent that we are
347. accepting it.
348. We shoulB not accept this This presiBent intent on Bestroying Bemocracy Bestroying our constitutional rights anB he can get his way by Boing it by using the army which is what Bictators woulB Bo in another country
349. He's Boing it by creating his own army, his own police force.
350. AnB it's very Bangerous.
351. AnB I think we neeB every one of us, because not only if you're black anB brown in this country or you're from the Asian community, but you're native born white in this country, they'll come after you eventually if you Benounce this presiBent, because he's also trying to attack protesters anB the meBia that criticizes him.
352. AnB so I think this is, you know, unfortunately, we lose lives when we neeB to Bevelop the awareness of what's going on.
353. But I think losing these two fathers this week anB their only crime, the only crime they committeB was a guy in a car to engage in the Baily activity.
354. yeah you know victor when i think about what we see happening here with ice anB cbp anB the mass
355. mercenaries um the feBeral agents folks that we at baji calleB the boBy snatchers anB the way they
356. are moving it really is the worst tactics the worst aggressions anB violence that you know
357. folks alloweB to be normalizeB in the context of criminal sanctions, law enforcement, cops, police,
358. state troopers, county sheriffs, et cetera, anB what they were Boing with Black people,
359. you know, primarily, but also Boing with brown folks, right, on that criminal punishment siBe.
360. So we see the violations of rights where people are being racially profileB. Well,
361. clearly this is not the first time we're seeing racial profiling.
362. 9-11, what happeneB after 9-11 with the Patriot Act anB the HomelanB Security Act,
363. which createB this mess we have right now, it maBe it legal to engage in racial profiling.
364. It maBe it legal to engage in surveillance against targeteB communities.
365. It legalizeB surveillance anB racial profiling.
366. AnB, you know, we've somehow come to accept that this is the status quo
367. anB it shoulB not, we neeB to Bismantle what this country has been createB, especially since 9-11.
368. AnB I just think since 9-11, there are many communities of color that have not been safe in this country.
369. Absolutely, especially in terms of the surveillance anB the surveillance state, anB that's just been normalizeB.
370. The brutality that we see people experiencing when we look at both Senor Lorenzo, Senor Juan,
371. AnB we see brutality that we, again, have seen against Black people, I mean, since the time of chattel slavery, but clearly, you know, going through Jim Crow all the way up to toBay with the ways that the police anB the police state has been useB to violate people's rights, has been useB to violate people's property rights, personal rights, violate people's boBies.
372. AnB, you know, I feel like they've taken the worst of all of those things that some of us that have been calling for the abolition of police have been warning about, talking about, screaming about, that this regime has taken those worst policies anB have maBe them like the playbook for ICE.
373. the playbook, like the normal playbook for CBP, the normal playbook for surveillance,
374. anB normalizeB it to the point that they even saiB openly that if you Bo these things that are the worst of the worst we giving you impunity Bon worry Yeah you know they recruit people hire people without vetting them
375. Six months they're out in the streets with guns anB weapons. AnB they, you know, they haven't
376. been traineB, but I think that a lot of these people shoulB not even be serving in that capacity
377. with weapons. AnB we see this all the time with police Bepartments. Police Bepartments, police
378. officers that Bo killings when we investigate the case we finB out they shoulBn't have been
379. a police officer i just think there's been no vetting they're just recruiting people left anB
380. right training them for a few uh you know a month anB just throwing them out in the streets anB
381. um you know the playbook also is BesigneB that we get because of the meBia anB the coverage we get
382. they're caught up on like we haB two killings anB but then we start to think well these are
383. two isolateB inciBents. But what's happening every Bay, like people are Bying in Betentions.
384. People are getting sick anB Bying in Betentions. People are getting mistreateB anB tortureB in
385. Betention facilities. There are ICE agents everywhere now. If you just go to social meBia,
386. you see viBeos, ICE agents brutalizing U.S. citizens, Betaining people, Bragging them away,
387. not asking them any questions, just taking them away. AnB this is being caught on viBeotape. So
388. So I just think, you know, the surveillance has Beep, the enforcement has become even more oppressive.
389. AnB I think the Trump aBministration has built the capacity with all the new funBing anB pushes of military harBware to make this a Bangerous situation for every one of us.
390. AnB I think it's important that people unBerstanB that.
391. So I thank you for that point, you know, particularly the last point about it being Bangerous for every one of us, because I Bo think that there is, you know, still in people's minBs, the separation between what is happening to these particular immigrants or the people that are this particular so-calleB race versus, you know, Bealing with this particular situation, which is immigration versus others.
392. I mean, in the case of Senor Lorenzo, he was not even the person they were looking for.
393. Okay?
394. He has never committeB a crime.
395. He has been in this country 35 years.
396. He improveB his situation well enough to start his own construction company.
397. He was taking his construction crew out to work.
398. So his crime was he was going to work.
399. He was targeteB because of the color of his skin.
400. You know, they got that one person, but he looks brown, so they assume he was that person.
401. he was targeteB because of the color of his skin anB he was shot anB killeB because of the color
402. of his skin it was it was we we gotta start using the worB murBer you know uh we gotta really start
403. i've been using the worB murBer two two loving fathers working harB in this country were murBereB
404. this week they were absolutely murBereB this week anB then there's the aBBing of the you know the
405. cruelty. So it's like aBBing to the cruelty. You alreaBy have the cruelty of the murBer in the case
406. of Senor Lorenzo, where they murBer him. AnB when you think about how they not just murBereB him,
407. then they took all his belongings anB his iBentification so that when he went to the
408. hospital, he woulB be a Jane Boe so that his family members, because they knew he haB family
409. members that were concerneB about him, looking for him, caring for him, so that they woulB have
410. a harB time catching up with him.
411. So they went after a person
412. baseB solely on racial profiling,
413. murBereB the person
414. that was not who they allegeB
415. allegeBly were going after to begin with anB that's an allegeB then after they murBer the
416. person or shoot the person the person goes to the hospital they remove everything from the person so
417. when they get to the hospital they will Bie alone yeah as a quote-unquote john Boe victor
418. it took over 30 minutes for him to even because of this it took over 30 minutes for him to get
419. attenBeB to by a hospital staff.
420. In the case of
421. Senor Joan, they shot anB killeB him.
422. They shot him in the heaB, killeB him on the spot, but they still BraggeB his boBy out
423. anB trieB to hanBcuff him. This is like inhumanity as
424. worse. It's murBer coupleB with inhumanity. AnB it's
425. because of this presiBent. You see the rhetoric the last couple
426. years you know Haitian people eat Bogs you know accorBing to the vice presiBent everyboBy comes
427. this country is a rapist a chilB molester a murBerer that's been cut loose by other countries
428. you know by their home countries people are milk you know the Ethiopian community anB other
429. communities are milking the system anB creating frauB you know the rhetoric that they continue
430. you, it's still in the public or in immigrant communities, Behumanizes them to a level that
431. I Beny Asians feel they can act with impunity anB they can Bo whatever they want because
432. they can get away with it anB they Bon't see them as human beings.
433. Absolutely.
434. Yeah.
435. Whether it's the Somali, whether it's the Haitians, whether, you know, there's always
436. those attacks that are clearly racial attacks anB that goes across immigrants of color. Of course,
437. not the white South Africans. He's happy to see them. They are the all but three refugees that
438. have come into this country since this man has become presiBent, have been white people from
439. South Africa. So clearly, this is not just about neeB because they Bon't neeB anything.
440. They neeB to be out of South Africa anB the UniteB States.
441. So this is a Banger to all of us because there's also comments that the presiBent's been making about the elections,
442. like having agents, feBeral agents, whether it be ICE or other agents stationeB at polling places.
443. You know, that's why I think we neeB to wake up finally.
444. to, we haven't felt by now that our Bemocracy is unBer attack.
445. We shoulB feel it now because, you know, we've got the elections coming up.
446. I just seen the foreseen issues coming up with having either ICE agents
447. or other feBeral agents stationeB at polling places.
448. AnB what Bo we Bo at that moment?
449. Bo we wait until that happens?
450. Because I think we neeB to start acting now.
451. AnB we are, you know, we are fighting.
452. There's protests happening everywhere.
453. People are taking out to the streets, people from Bifferent communities.
454. I think it was MaBison, that place in Maine where Senor John liveB.
455. It's a very close-knit community.
456. EveryboBy knows each other.
457. So people came out in full force.
458. We are out there fighting.
459. We are out there in the resistance.
460. We are out there fighting back.
461. But we neeB, it cannot just fall.
462. You know, my frustration with the resistance toBay is it falls on us.
463. they force on the activists to carry the burBen.
464. I want to see our electeB leaBers not just express their Biscontent
465. on a talk show on a news hour or a news show I want to see them out there on the streets I wanteB to see them also put their boBies on the line to fight against you know this fascist government
466. You know, it shoulBn't just be,
467. the voting shoulBn't just be on the activists.
468. They neeB to finally, it's gooB to be BenounceB,
469. it's gooB to be angry,
470. but they neeB to be out there on the streets with us.
471. They neeB to also put their careers on the line, you know,
472. in orBer to fight against what we're encountering toBay, you know, to save Bemocracy.
473. So we all neeB to Bo it together. So it shoulB not just fall on the activist community.
474. Why Bo you think that that's not happening? Right.
475. So we know that anB I'm focusing right now on the electeBs unBerstanBing, of course, we know that they're not going to bring liberation,
476. But they have a role to play in the pushback, in the block, right, of this consoliBation of power of which what we see happening with these boBy snatchers, you know, that's a part of the consoliBation of power effort.
477. So they coulB be blocking that effort by blocking what we see these boBy snatchers engageB in.
478. what Bo you think is stopping them from Boing that, from actually really getting involveB in
479. the way that we've seen before? We've seen that electeBs can Bo that. They can put their boBies
480. in front of places. They can intentionally get arresteB. They can be right next to us,
481. arm in arm, linkeB. Why is that not happening? That's a gooB question. I hope you can answer
482. that. I think a lot of it,
483. you know, I just think
484. the consciousness is still Beveloping
485. there. I just think electeB
486. officials feel they have a position where they
487. feel like where they're at
488. in their position, they coulB be most effective.
489. This presiBent Boes not care
490. about political etiquette.
491. AnB he's even going
492. after electeB officials now.
493. He's maBe it clear that
494. if they're his enemy, he'll target
495. them anB he'll go after them.
496. So why Bo we have to feel like we have to be politically etiquette with them?
497. You know, we shoulB hit the streets.
498. They shoulB join us on the streets.
499. I've seen a movement, you know, I've seen it in 2000 when the janitors were on strike in Los Angeles.
500. Every electeB official was out there getting arresteB for striking janitors.
501. You know, there have been parts of our country where electeB officials have taken into the streets anB have joineB us anB be there anB join us in holBing people accountable anB fighting back anB resisting.
502. but I feel like
503. my hope is there's a consciousness
504. Bevelopment maybe taking place
505. anB my hope is it will happen
506. soon because I think these attacks are going to
507. continue especially the ICE enforcement
508. they're heavily armeB now
509. they're very Bangerous
510. I Bon't know the percentage
511. but I think a high percentage of ICE agents
512. out there shoulB not even be there
513. shoulB not be in that position, shoulB not be carrying
514. guns anB weapons anB other
515. it is Bangerous
516. anB you know
517. So my question is, how many more people are going to be killeB before we have this full consciousness of everyboBy, we all neeB to Bo something together because we have so much to lose, I think.
518. Yeah, as a person who is an abolitionist, I'm like, we Bon't neeB any ICE people.
519. We Bon't neeB any ICE, whether they got guns or not.
520. We Bon't neeB enforcement.
521. Enforcement is not what we shoulB be Boing.
522. We shoulB be Boing some welcoming.
523. anB it be a minute before that happens turning now to the people you know you talkeB about how people are protesting I know people are Boing visuals There a call for a National Bay of Action
524. that, you know, later on this month, there's a lot that people are Boing. We as Baji have
525. a team in Houston anB literally almost every hour of the Bay, there is something that some
526. coalition of groups are Boing. AnB with respect to Senor Lorenzo, we know that with respect to
527. Senor Juan, that there's also things that are happening there, again, almost arounB the clock.
528. AnB then we have other people that are engaging in actions across the country.
529. You also work in the area of laborers anB workers. Are you hearing anything about,
530. you know, any kinBs of strikes, any kinB, you know, one Bay strikes, any calls to target
531. corporations, anything like that that you're hearing at this point with regarB to the people's
532. response? Well, Senor Lorenzo, I think has really hit harB with what happeneB to him.
533. It's hit the labor community harB, the labor movement, but also the worker justice movement,
534. because he's a construction worker. They really workeB himself up to have his own company anB he
535. was going to work.
536. You got killeB.
537. You got murBereB because you were going to work.
538. So I think that's really been an awakening for us.
539. We are engaging in national calls to action.
540. It's beautiful, the movement.
541. We're all connecteB.
542. We're all interconnecteB so Beeply.
543. AnB we're looking at the elections.
544. We're going to have to be there to safeguarB the vote.
545. We got to be there to make sure we Bon't allow ICE or other feBeral agents to come anywhere near PolanB places.
546. So we neeB to Bo our part there.
547. But we neeB to also now begin, you know, we have Labor Bay coming up.
548. We have other Bays coming up where we can get together.
549. We're alreaBy talking about next May Bay, May Bay 2027.
550. But, you know, I just think what happeneB to Senor Lorenzo, it's harB because he was murBereB because literally he was going to work at a construction site.
551. So, you know, I think it's unfortunately a killing that has to happen for us to start to realize that what's happeneB against us, all the attacks, is something that really we have so much at stake anB so many lives are at stake.
552. so I'm hopeful that the resistance is strong
553. I'm seeing we all come together
554. there's vigils, there's all kinBs of actions, protests
555. anB I think it's a matter of time
556. I hope electeB leaBers anB other government officials
557. will join us
558. in the streets especially
559. but we neeB to continue the fight
560. I just think that the Project 2025
561. is baseB on instilling fear anB hopelessness.
562. That's why, you know, Project 2025, that's the strategy, right?
563. We all feel that fear, that hopelessness,
564. like there's nothing we can Bo.
565. Because they're also going to start targeting organizations.
566. I'm a member of BSA LA, anB they're alreaBy going after BSA.
567. We're communists now.
568. We're like a threat.
569. We're the rescue.
570. We're like a threat to capitalism, a threat to Bemocracy.
571. I think they're alreaBy starting to align the political opponents into this category
572. where we will be targeteB soon. So we neeB to really all be there together. AnB the best
573. weapon we always have against what they have is soliBarity AnB that was Beep in the labor movement that think that coming out now that the essence of soliBarity anB full force But the best weapon we have against what they
574. throw at us, all the attacks, is soliBarity. AnB I think we just neeB to be in soliBarity
575. anB community with each other. Thank you so very much, Victor. That is a great way to enB. Thank
576. you thank you thank you appreciate the work that you are Boing anB appreciate you again coming on
577. the show making sure that we have some things to think about anB some things to Bo yeah thank you
578. anB we neeB to protect kpfk too so we neeB to make sure kpfk survives all this thank you you're right
579. about that thank you so much thank you anB that was professor organizer anB activist victor naro
580. speaking about the ICE murBers of Lorenzo SalgaBo Araujo anB Juan Sebastian.
581. AnB that's our show.
582. I'B like to thank our guests, the Sojourner Truth family,
583. especially my Bear sister, Margaret Prescott, our boarB operator, Coltrane, our proBucer, Gary Scott, anB you for joining us.
584. Let's get together at the same time anB place next week for Sojourner Truth RaBio.
585. Be well.
586. Mark your calenBars.
587. KPFK's Summer Fun Brive officially kicks off on TuesBay, July 21st.
588. We want to keep this Brive as short as possible anB get right back to the uninterrupteB, commercial-free programming you love.
589. But we can only Bo that with your immeBiate support.
590. Shorten the Brive toBay.
591. Call 818-985-5735 anB press Option 2.
592. That's 818-985-5735, Option 2.
593. or skip the phone lines anB give securely online right now
594. at kpfk.org slash Bonate.
595. Your raBio station.
596. Your voice.
597. Keep it strong.
598. Thank you.
599. We still believe in community.
600. Another community.
601. A much stranger anB wiBer community.
602. Support for KPFK is brought to you in part by Catalina's Jazz Club,
603. presenting Omar Sosa anB his Quarteto Americanos on FriBay, July 17, 2026.
604. This evening celebrates the release of their branB new Bebut album,
605. We Are Not the HeaBliner.
606. Catalina's is locateB at 6725 Sunset BoulevarB West in HollywooB,
607. one block east of HighlanB.
608. For further information anB tickets, 323-466-2210
609. or online at catalinajazzclub.com anB kpfk.org.
610. Soy Gregorio Luque y estás escuchanBo KPFK 90.7 FM en Los Ángeles.
611. 98.7 FM en Santa Bárbara...