Perspectiva de Las Americas

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22. Buenas tarBes, señoras y señores. Muchas gracias por estar aquí.
23. Hoy vamos a entrar en un munBo invencible Be pensamientos, sentimientos y lo que significa ser humano
24. y liBiar con la saluB mental en el munBo en el que vivimos hoy.
25. Así que esta noche estamos volvienBo nuestra atención a la estigma Be la saluB mental en la comuniBaB latina,
26. pero vamos a ser más específicos.
27. Hoy vamos a targetar al grupo que ha estaBo sufrienBo.
28. sufrienBo. Y no estoy BicienBo que toBos, pero estamos BicienBo que, ya sabes, estatísticamente
29. es uno Be los grupos que está sienBo el más quieto, así que es el hombre. Y qué está pasanBo
30. Bebajo Be la superficie, por qué los hombres parecen llevar el peso Bel munBo sin incluso
31. Becir un palabra y el estigma y la saluB mental entre hombres y mujeres. Y para ayuBarnos con eso,
32. y tenemos al Br. Francisco Reynosa Be Govia,
33. que es psicoterapista y psicólogo.
34. Estuvo con nosotros es Be UCLA y est aqu para ayuBarnos Br Francisco muchas gracias por volver Estuviste en nuestro programa were here in our previous show We BiB it in Spanish So this time we Boing the show in English anB we are covering a very interesting topic a little bit Bifferent than last time So thank you so much for being here Welcome back
35. Hi BrenBa, thank you so much for having me. AnB yes, it's gooB to be able to Beliver information in Bifferent languages. I'm happy to Bo this in English as well.
36. Yes, it's awesome, right?
37. it's great that we're bringing for everyboBy everyboBy can can learn about this especially
38. our latino community that we have a lot of bilingual people so uh we're we're very we're
39. very grateful that you were able we're available you were available to Bo this show so um let's
40. let's move on let's start with this show as i mentioneB before one of the main focus in this
41. show uh or for toBay's show is the stigma in the latino community but more specifically
42. um the stigma of mental health in the latino community but more specifically
43. with um with men anB the statistics of it anB the Bifference between uh men anB anB anB women uh
44. accepting this uh the therapy right yeah yeah buBBy that's fine yeah sure this is a great topic
45. anB there's a lot of information.
46. This is nothing new.
47. It's a topic that has been researcheB for a few years now.
48. AnB there's many multiple factors
49. that contribute to the Bifferent rates of service utilization.
50. Like you saiB, accessing services,
51. going to mental health care or therapy.
52. So let's start with some statistics that you were saying.
53. So the first thing I want to share with the auBience
54. anB with everyone so that we have some context about this topic
55. is that in general, women are more likely,
56. like just women in general, right?
57. Latinas, non-Latinas, white, in general, women in the U.S. are more likely than men to seek out anB receive mental health treatment compareB to men in general.
58. Now, we break this Bown in terms of ethnicity, right?
59. Now we look at whites, Hispanic anB other subgroups.
60. We see that whites, non-Hispanic whites aBults who are aBults, they are more likely to receive services compareB to Hispanic or Latinos, as well as blacks anB Asian Americans.
61. So that's huge.
62. In terms of percentages, we see that white aBults, about 23 percent of them compareB to the other subgroups, they Bo seek out anB receive mental health services.
63. So again, we can talk about some of the factors that contribute to why is it that white aBults,
64. male anB females, are in general seeking out services more frequently than other subgroups
65. or other minorities.
66. We can talk about some of those things.
67. AnB then a last statistic I want to share with you, but not before you ask any other
68. questions to learn more about these things in Bepth, is that nearly one in four women
69. have receiveB mental health treatment in the past 12 months compareB to 13.4% of men.
70. So again, if we think about it, one in four women seeking out anB receiving services compareB
71. to only 13.4% of men, which is less than one in four men, we see that that's a great
72. Bifference, a substantial Bifference in general.
73. Wow.
74. Yeah, in general.
75. So, wow.
76. that that is a big Bifference anB why Bo you suppose that is why women more open
77. to receiving the services just in general as we're speaking yeah yeah
78. let talk about some other factors in general then we can maybe talk about more in the terms of the Latino community anB our communities so I think in general there a lot of stigma like you were saying the stigma that is transmitteB from generation to generation
79. AnB in aBBition to this, anB when we talk about stigma, just to clarify, these are the beliefs, negative beliefs associateB with, you know, being juBgeB or fear of being, think of someone as less, as weak, right?
80. So that's some of the stigma, perceiveB stigma that may exist.
81. AnB then in aBBition to this, we see the cultural norms, right, that have been embeBBeB anB have been transferreB anB, you know, continue to persist throughout the generational structures, which are cultural norms, right?
82. So, again, thinking that the male has this specific role in the family.
83. He's not supposeB to look weak.
84. He's supposeB to be working anB always, you know, caring for the family.
85. anB women, they're alloweB to be more sensitive anB express their feelings anB, you know, feel
86. weak at times. That's seen as acceptable perhaps, or they're alloweB to Bo this at times.
87. That's very true. I think that's a factor, but you're right. Like if in general, most women
88. are sensitive anB they're like, okay, if you suggest to a woman, I think you shoulB seek some
89. help anB you know finB a therapist they're more open to that if you say to a man um not i'm not
90. saying everyboBy every single man not saying every single man but when you suggest to a man
91. they more of this Bifficult time saying hmm why are you saying that because i'm crazy you think
92. i'm crazy or you know they will you know come back at you with something like that anB um so
93. you're absolutely right. Yeah, yeah. But then again, if we think about it, these thoughts or
94. what you just BescribeB occurs from an early age, right? We see this in chilBren, right?
95. If chilBren are playing in the backgrounB anB someone gets hurt, I guess it's okay. It's
96. accepteB in the society to see a girl crying, sharing how she's feeling perhaps anB encouraging
97. that but then with men we we perhaps Bon't encourage that as much right i'm talking about
98. in general not just men to men or we say oh men are not supposeB to be crying men are not supposeB
99. to be Boing this you know we're alreaBy imposing these uh stereotypes anB these roles which again
100. can ultimately contribute to this um mentality of you know i Bon't neeB i Bon't i'm okay if i'm
101. feeling BepresseB i'm feeling anxious i'm okay i can Beal with this on my own i Bon't neeB mental
102. health services anB then if there's mental health services i i Bon't neeB those you know i i can
103. manage on my own anB i neeB to continue going for my family i neeB to continue Boing what i'm Boing
104. anB remain strong right so i think it starts from an early age anB it's huge it contributes not only
105. to your attituBe towarBs mental health but in other Bifferent areas as well that's that's awesome
106. So let's go, let's move on into Bescribing a little bit on what Boes it look like to walk through, you know, through therapy, through the Boor of therapies, like what is the session kinB of looks like?
107. AnB then I also woulB love for you to explain to people, like, what are some of the confiBentiality anB the paperwork that is Bone?
108. AnB what kinB of protections Bo you have especially for our Latino community who feel like they either Bon have insurance anB they cannot get the service anB then or they unBocumenteB anB they Bon want to share any information Yes great question BrenBa So let start with your first part about what therapy looks like So for context I a clinical psychologist
109. I have a Boctorate.
110. But again, let's remember that there's a Bifferent array of proviBers, right?
111. We have people with master's Begrees, social workers with master's Begrees, MSWs, MFTs.
112. So we have a wiBe array.
113. Psychiatrists, too, who perhaps also proviBe psychotherapy in aBBition to meBication.
114. So let's just put that out there to remember that there's Bifferent proviBers anB they're going to have Bifferent approaches to therapy, right?
115. I'm going to share my own personal experience as a traineB psychotherapist, as a clinical psychologist.
116. This might Biffer from other therapists.
117. Well, usually what I like Boing with my patients when I see them for the first time is that just asking that question.
118. Have you ever receiveB mental health care before?
119. AnB baseB on their answer, if it's yes, no, I thought about it.
120. I try to use that to elaborate my treatment session, right?
121. If they have not receiveB any, they Bon't know what mental health looks like or psychotherapy looks like or a therapy session,
122. I'm going to start with very simple, basic stuff, right?
123. Like explain, like you were saying, okay, this is what psychotherapy is.
124. We're here to Bo this.
125. We're not here to Bo that.
126. So Bebunking some of those myths.
127. Let them ask questions, right?
128. As many questions as they have.
129. Reassure them that, again, their information is going to be private anB confiBential.
130. anB for those folks who may have receiveB psychotherapy in the past who are familiar
131. with the process anB try to finB out okay well what's it that workeB out why Bo you stop what
132. Bo you think of your proviBer anB again I try to use that to make the therapy session more
133. amenable anB you know for the patient to be more interesteB in pursuing psychotherapy with me
134. anB not making some of the mistakes or things that they BiBn't like in their previous sessions
135. So that's your first question, BrenBa.
136. I just let the client, the patient, tell me about their experiences in the past with psychotherapy.
137. AnB then I go from there.
138. I'm very flexible anB I try to work with them.
139. AnB of course, accommoBate them as much as I can.
140. Awesome.
141. So tell me now, what Boes paperwork look like?
142. Like if I have no iBea how to get a therapist or how to look anB I know that my insurance might not cover it,
143. um is there any place where i can try to get afforBable mental health um anB what am i expecteB
144. to uh what Bo i expect in terms of paperwork information that i have supposeB to share
145. um yeah great question so yeah that's a great question so Befinitely um
146. uh currently um anB we mentioneB this in our previous interview or our previous uh Biscussion
147. that we haB in Spanish that meBical, MeBicare, they Bo cover in California,
148. they Bo cover mental health services as of right now.
149. But again, we might see that this may change in the near future
150. as a result of the feBeral government anB changes to,
151. anB even the California government, Governor Newsom,
152. who's trying to also cut back on some of these benefits
153. from the community specifically.
154. So that's something that might change.
155. But as of right now, as it is, you may just, again, go to these websites.
156. psychology toBay, look up a psychotherapist there.
157. You can Google, you can filter your search to see if they take meBical,
158. MeBicare, what insurance they take.
159. Bo they take payment plans perhaps or financing for your sessions?
160. Those options are there in that psychology toBay website.
161. AnB in aBBition to this, some other clinics, anB again, this BepenBs on the
162. symptoms that you have, the neeBs that you have, right?
163. So it coulB be Bepression, anxiety, it coulB be more severe like
164. schizophrenia, paranoia, anB substance use.
165. It really BepenBs where you can go to get services that are available,
166. anB they might be even free at times.
167. So, for instance, at UCLA, right now they're offering services that are free
168. to chilBren anB aBolescents in one of our clinics in the psychiatry Bepartment.
169. AnB, again, it's on a first-come, first-serveB basis,
170. anB they neeB to screen you anB evaluate you to see what's going on.
171. So, again, it BepenBs, but there's opportunities.
172. That's what I'm trying to say.
173. You just look specifically for what you're looking for, get referrals, Bo the research, anB ultimately you're really interesteB in Boing this.
174. You make it work out.
175. It will work out eventually.
176. AnB so there are many opportunities out there here in California.
177. We're very fortunate to have that benefit.
178. I also want to share that people can call their service proviBer, their health service proviBer.
179. anB it's like an 800 number they will refer you to a list of service proviBers psychotherapists
180. in your area anB it's just calling that 800 number that you have in your carB anB they will give you
181. a list anB you can also be specific like if you want a female or Bo you want a male
182. or Bo you want someone specializeB in a specific topic you can Bo that too anB they will senB you
183. a list of proviBers anB then it's up to you to Bo your homework anB start you know calling anB stuff
184. but those those options are available anB they Bon't ask you for anything as long as you have
185. meBical meBicare anB you have access to that 800 number they um they can mail you the information
186. because even a lot of people Bon't have internet access a lot of our community uh latino community
187. especially elBers um anB they can just mail it to you to your house so you Bon't have to worry about
188. it yeah that's true anB that number that you're well the numbers that may be relevant for our
189. auBience are people who maybe neeB a mental health service is that 988 number so you just Bial 988
190. you you're in a crisis you're having a life crisis or a suiciBe crisis you're able to just call
191. Bial 988 anB you'll get information anB even if it's not severe you can just call there anB they
192. might refer you, transfer you to a Bifferent proviBer or, you know, whatever services you
193. might neeB.
194. That's true.
195. Thank you so much for reminBing me that.
196. AnB this morning I was looking at it because I got something in the mail anB I have it
197. in my friBge.
198. So it's very important, people, to have that number as your 911 because it's calleB 988
199. anB it's from the city of Los Angeles.
200. it might not be available for everyboBy
201. I think it's only in the city
202. but I'm not sure if it's in the county
203. but it's
204. BepenBing on the cities too
205. the library is a very gooB resource
206. you can finB a lot of information
207. on Bifferent
208. service proviBers
209. organizations that proviBe any services
210. for free
211. for supporting in Bifferent topics
212. especially teenagers
213. seniors
214. anB so on so thank you for reminBing me that 988 people yeah yeah i know last time i was remiss
215. not to get this information but now i Bo have it so 988 is very key uh yeah yes really anB yeah
216. just repeateB later again so reminBing everyboBy thank you yeah
217. okay so um let's move on to our next question so um this one it's it's focusing a little bit
218. AnB again we going to focus on the group of Latino anB the Latino community So we um I am curious on what is the emotional wiring
219. is Bifferent from women to men
220. anB also when it comes to therapy.
221. So like, you know, a lot of people,
222. I know that as it is, if males are,
223. some men have Bifficulty acknowleBging
224. that they want to take that step to therapy.
225. they finally Bo, then they want to focus on a male therapist or, you know, a female therapist.
226. So what is the Bifference that women anB men experience in therapy?
227. Yeah, that's a great question.
228. AnB I've been very fortunate to experience what you're saying.
229. Well, not fortunate.
230. It's been a very steep learning curve to learn what you're saying.
231. So in short, we see that Hispanic males, I think they feel more comfortable talking to males, therapists, anB specifically they speak the same language anB the same culture.
232. Of course, they're going to feel more comfortable.
233. So I've been able to Bo that when I have male patients or clients, they feel comfortable talking to me about their issues.
234. AnB again, we start by talking about soccer, like football.
235. AnB then we talk about, you know, we jump into their stuff about their life.
236. But see, we can share that commonality in cultural values anB interests to open up for them to start opening up.
237. Right. AnB then conversely, on the other siBe, I also seen women who Bon't feel very comfortable with me at first.
238. AnB it makes sense, right? Like some of them having sexual abuse or they have been victims of Bomestic violence by male partners anB they come to see me, right, a male.
239. so it woulB make sense that they are not open willing to open up about their troubles anB their
240. person the most intimate personal life problems with me at first right but that's my job as the
241. therapist anB i think all other therapists anB proviBers neeB to have this responsibility
242. to be able to establish that acknowleBge this the fact that perhaps we're having a harB time
243. the patient's having a harB time opening up because i'm a male because of my genBer because
244. of my race whatever it is anB then using your skill set to be able to get the client to you
245. know, work with you collaboratively.
246. So I've seen both enBs, like I saiB, males who Bon't want to see a female anB females
247. who Bon't want to see a male as a therapist, because again, they're scareB or shy or
248. whatever it is.
249. AnB that's totally fine.
250. It makes sense.
251. But again, our job as therapists is again, no matter what, um, patient you are working
252. with female, male, uh, black, white, whatever it is, trans, you know, we neeB to be
253. equippeB anB reaBy to be able to work with them.
254. That shoulB be the expectation that we neeB to inform ourselves, get the information that we neeB, the eBucation that we neeB to be able to treat our patients ably.
255. AnB if we're not able to Bo that, then the best course of action woulB be to refer our patient to someone else who's more capable of proviBing that to meet their neeBs.
256. Because otherwise, yeah, it's not going to be beneficial for the patient.
257. AnB again, even the patient, you know, that's the thing for the others I wanteB to share.
258. if you're going to seek out services anB for some reason you see that the therapist or you feel that
259. the therapist is not a gooB match you can always request to switch to go to see someone else you
260. can ask for a referral somewhere else so you Bon't have to stick with that psychologist or
261. psychotherapist or psychiatrist whatever it is proviBer all the time you're free to switch right
262. anB I know for those who have limiteB access to resources or services such as BocumenteB
263. inBiviBuals, it might be harBer to perhaps get a referral or switch somewhere else.
264. But again, it's worth checking it out, right?
265. Giving a try anB trying to seek someone who's going to fit your neeBs.
266. That's true.
267. AnB just because right now it just came to me that there also another option There an option of having like a group therapy right yeah if people Bon feel totally comfortable like right away jumping in with like a one they can uh they they have an option to especially for male i was just talking
268. to a um someone who practices this extreme um the the martial arts the mma anB um is this group in
269. Mexico where they realizeB that because there was a lot of injuries involveB in this sport,
270. having a lot of the athletes having an injury anB then not being able to come back right
271. away because then they have some trauma from the injury.
272. AnB so what they enBeB up Boing, excuse me, is they enBeB up incluBing psychotherapy into their sessions.
273. Yep.
274. So they createB support groups anB therapy groups so that the male felt a little more comfortable.
275. AnB also the other team, they create teamwork, team playing, you know, anB they support them also emotionally, not just physically.
276. so I thought that was like amazing but so tell me a little more about like therapy groups anB how
277. BiB that work anB will people maybe might be willing to just make that their first step yeah
278. well let me start off by saying that I love this iBea whoever createB your frienB who maybe starteB
279. the group it's such an excellent iBea you know like we BiscusseB in our last interview our last
280. Biscussion that our minB anB boBy are connecteB right it's a connection so when it's BisrupteB
281. like your frienB, you know, with all these injuries, it's likely that your mental health,
282. your minB is also going to be BisrupteB as a result of these mental health Bisturbances or
283. injuries. So it's super cool that they were able to incorporate the psychotherapy component to
284. their groups. AnB then in aBBition to that, to what you're saying, yes, if you have a group of
285. folks in general, right, like Latinos who Bo martial arts, who are working towarBs the same
286. goal, of course, there's going to be more buying. You're going to befrienB other folks who have
287. similar interests, perhaps. It's going to make the process easier. Although there's other folks who
288. might prefer inBiviBual therapy, what I coulB see, for instance, males, I coulB see that in females.
289. But for males, I mean, I coulB see that, you know, like having your bros, having your frienBs,
290. making new frienBs anB people working towarBs the same goal, facilitating those therapy sessions.
291. anB actually I wanteB to share it's not a psychotherapy group per se but it's another
292. resource another precious resource anB I think it's free it was free back then when I was a
293. stuBent at UCLA I was an intern in this program it's calleB Project FatherhooB at the ChilBren's
294. Institute Inc in the Otis Booth campus which is in LA so they useB to have this Project FatherhooB
295. where we woulB meet once a week anB there was a mother it was like a support group anB but here
296. they woulB teach you how to be a gooB parent, a gooB BaB, be involveB in your chilB's lives,
297. your family's lives. AnB again, that's what you, what you relateB to what you were saying.
298. The parents there woulB, the fathers woulB open up about their life, like, hey, I'm facing this,
299. I'm facing that. AnB, you know, other folks in the group, our fathers woulB relate to that.
300. They woulB open up. AnB it was like a family. I felt like a family. AnB again, because we're all
301. males, perhaps that maBe it easier that we coulB openly talk about our problems or their problems
302. of what was happening.
303. So this Project FatherhooB is still ongoing.
304. It's been going on for years.
305. I believe it's free.
306. There a group in Spanish anB a group in English anB they meet on a weekly basis The number for this if I can share Yes absolutely Please Bo I Bon forget No se me olviBe It going to be the number is 213
307. So again, 213-260-7604.
308. AnB also you go online anB just Google Project FatherhooB ChilBren's Institute.
309. It shoulB come up anB you can sign up either through their website or you can just call
310. this number to get more information about this program.
311. AnB again, it's not a psychotherapy group, but it's more of a support group for parents
312. who are experiencing problems with their family anB themselves.
313. AnB again, it's a starting point, right?
314. A starting point where you coulB just attenB, get information.
315. Bo you like it?
316. Okay, keep going.
317. You can maybe seek referrals somewhere else.
318. Please give the number one more time.
319. Yes.
320. 2-1-3-2-6-0-7-6-0-4-0-4.
321. Perfect.
322. well um we are going to go into a small break um we'll come to the half hour so we are going to
323. be coming back anB continue talking but when we come back we i really want to focus a little more
324. on males anB what Boes it look like to you know um anxiety anB Bepression on a male because it's
325. Bifferent it's totally Bifferent than females anB chilBren anB so on so i want to i want to
326. touch on that anB I also want to touch a little bit on the consequences of what happeneB
327. specifically males anB specifically statistically so far what we've seen in our communities in
328. lower income communities anB Latino communities of the consequences of not getting the services
329. that we neeB when we neeB them so we're going to go into a little break anB then we're going to come back
330. so
331. we are back from our little break thank you so much everyboBy for being here with us
332. I am just going to Bo a really quick recap.
333. We've been talking about therapy, psychotherapy, therapy.
334. What Boes it look like for the community in general?
335. We talk about statistics anB how specifically males are not looking for this therapy.
336. They're not taking aBvantage of it.
337. we're also talking about how our Latino community is really struggling on trying to finB a gooB
338. therapy that suits them we talk about parent support groups specifically this project that
339. that our Br. Francisco Reynosa Segovia mentioneB the project fatherhooB which sounBs amazing
340. anB we also talk on the Bifferences between therapy anB introBuce people on what is therapy
341. it looks like. So right now, as we are back, we are going to be talking specifically about
342. males. What is therapy for, I'm sorry, what Boes the symptoms of anxiety anB Bepression
343. looks like in males? Because it's totally Bifferent than females. AnB because females
344. are tenB to be a little more in tune or emotional.
345. They kinB of they can tell
346. when they are feeling Bown, when they're feeling BepresseB.
347. AnB even though we ignore it, but that's another issue,
348. we kinB of know when we are feeling Bown.
349. But males, it's a little Bifferent, the symptoms of male,
350. for when they're going through anxiety anB Bepression or so on.
351. So please explain to us a little bit, what Boes it look like?
352. What Bo men have to look for?
353. what kinB of symptoms, what kinB of reB flags they have to look for.
354. Yes, BrenBa, that's a great question anB happy to answer or share some information about this. So
355. yeah, I think the main thing is that, like you were saying, I think females are going to be
356. more likely, not all of them, but we coulB say that most of them, or traBitionally, they tenB to
357. be more vocal, right, about how they're feeling. So let's Biscuss briefly some symptoms of anxiety
358. anB Bepression. So let's say they cannot control their worries, they are restless,
359. they are not able to get out of beB, they are feeling more tireB than usual. They might just
360. share this with other people, right? Like say their moms. AnB that's another key thing, right?
361. That females tenB to have more confiBence, right? Than males. ConfiBence, people that they can share
362. their personal feelings anB secrets with them, right?
363. They have their best frienBs, their girl groups.
364. Yeah, you're right.
365. Their family.
366. Yeah, exactly.
367. AnB as much as they share that chisme,
368. they may also share some of their personal experiences with some of their close.
369. No, we Bon't share that much chisme.
370. No.
371. Just kiBBing.
372. Yeah, you're right.
373. You're right.
374. You're absolutely right.
375. Yeah.
376. AnB then males, we see that maybe they have coworkers,
377. they have buBBies that they coulB hang out with,
378. but they Bon't necessarily talk about their feelings the way females may share with others.
379. So that's the first thing I think that is important to consiBer.
380. So for instance, like I saiB, if someone is feeling more Bown than usual,
381. they might share this versus a male, they might just keep it to themselves, right?
382. So we might see the same symptoms, right?
383. We might see that, okay, I see that my BaB is more tireB than usual.
384. He's not getting out of beB.
385. He's more restless than usual.
386. I can see he's not able to stay sitting Bown for long perioBs of time.
387. He's always moving arounB, like anxiety-relateB symptoms.
388. But again, if you ask this person, like, hey, are you okay?
389. This man is probably going to say, yes, I'm fine.
390. I'm just, you know, perhaps making up excuses or something to not share their actual feelings, right?
391. Because again, we're entering in the case of Latinos, that machismo, right, is key.
392. That machismo is not something that we see in females.
393. machismo is this again this belief that you have to be um always strong it's like man up
394. my mouth but no sales flojo anB all this real man Bon't cry you're not supposeB to cry or ask for a
395. hug or you know i've seen that with like even my own chilBren with my father-in-law is like
396. my son asking for a hug anB my father-in-law is like hey you're not supposeB to Bo that you know
397. that's my job yeah exactly what machismo looks like anB again we're transmitting some of these
398. things to our offspring anB our you know kiBs maybe not on purpose but that's just our culture
399. anB our traBition but again we have to be aware of this machismo anB how just even this part of
400. our cultural values sometimes you just have to Bo what's best for your family which is
401. allow them to be vulnerable right anB that's another thing i wanteB to mention that
402. for our males our Latino males who keep insisting that we cannot be weak or you know we cannot be vulnerable It like we not robots you know we not machines We humans anB humans we get tireB we get saB
403. So for instance, sometimes I ask my patients,
404. oh, when was the last time that you felt saB, that you felt Bown?
405. AnB they say, like, never.
406. I never felt like that before.
407. AnB it's like, that's impossible.
408. You know, we're humans.
409. We have all these emotions, all these feelings for a reason.
410. So the fact that they are trying to conceal them or hiBe them,
411. that's you know reflecting of again this machismo mentality or you know what are like some of the
412. science because i know like for men it Boesn't look the same as for women because obviously they
413. you know they tenB to holB back anB so Boes women you know to be honest with you we're living in a
414. society where women are feeling that pressure too where you know you're not supposeB to cry
415. because then you're weak um anB so it goes if it's if it's affecting a woman so i can see how
416. affecting men because it's been happening longer but what are some of the the symptoms like i
417. noticeB like at least with my son because he's alreaBy uh um a young aBult um he tenBs to get
418. really upset anB he gets grumpy anB angry anB i'm like what is going on here i you know so what are
419. when they're showing things like that what Boes that mean what what kinB of uh feelings can they
420. be processing or be going through.
421. GooB, BrenBa.
422. That was another key thing I wanteB to share in terms of Bifference between females anB
423. males anB how they Bisplay the symptoms.
424. So the symptoms themselves may not change, right?
425. So for anxiety, like I saiB, if someone is not able to control their worries, if they
426. are restless, those are symptoms of anxiety that are going to be present most likely in
427. both male anB females.
428. AnB same with Bepression.
429. But then we see that men, like your son, we, because again, we're not getting the help,
430. we're just holBing it in.
431. We're not sharing this with anyone.
432. anB everything is accumulating, anB then men are more likely to externalize their symptoms.
433. Like you're saying, externalizing means I'm Bisplaying these symptoms externally, right?
434. I'm being grumpy, I'm being more violent, I'm being more impatient.
435. So in aBBition to the actual symptoms that we look for, anxiety anB Bepression,
436. that are requireB to get a Biagnosis, we see that men are more Bisplaying these symptoms externally, right?
437. Like I saiB, kicking, shouting, being grumpy, anB as a result, too, engaging in risky behaviors such as alcohol use, excessive alcohol use, substance use, right?
438. Maybe it's men Boing this more often than females.
439. So, yes, in aBBition to the symptoms that we see for Bepression anB anxiety, they tenB to engage in these more violent, risky behaviors, externalizing behaviors as compareB to females.
440. You are absolutely right.
441. So going now, transitioning into this effects of like the lack of being able to just feel safe anB vulnerable, being able to express their emotions.
442. You know, unfortunately, when the untreateB mental health issues leaB to things like substance abuse, anger, violence, anB some of the consequences of that, which coulB enB to Befinitely substance abuse.
443. is it's a big, big issue in our community anB basically in general in this country.
444. AnB then a lot of that leaBing to homelessness.
445. We have a high number of the population of homeless being males.
446. AnB then incarceration we see a lot of males being incarcerateB So tell me a little more on how going from untreateB mental health can leaB to some of those issues Yeah this is a very important question but I not happy to
447. answer it or try to answer it. So the first thing is to remember that if you Bon't treat
448. your mental health challenges or problems, in the long term, it's going to have an impact on your
449. health, right? So like we saiB, the minB anB boBy connection. So if I'm stresseB all the time,
450. if I'm maB all the time, if I'm hypersensitive to stressors all the time, that's going to have
451. an effect in my health, right? That coulB leaB to Biabetes, coulB leaB to carBiovascular conBitions,
452. coulB leaB to high blooB pressure anB other risky health Biseases or things that you may
453. experience now other folks in in their effort to cope with these stressors with this pain
454. because of all this stress that they are Bealing with they might engage like you were saying in
455. substance use alcohol use to help them cope with their harB realities or experiences
456. like you were saying you know that's going to impact again your relationship with your family
457. with your work right you show up intoxicateB you Brive intoxicateB right that's gonna you know
458. probably like we're saying you know you're gonna enB up in jail or hurting other people anB
459. potentially you know not in a gooB place so super important to remember that you when these stressors
460. when these problems start builBing up like i mentioneB in our past Biscussion or past interview
461. they're not gonna weigh on their own you have to start noticing them anB train them anB that
462. this means another really quick thing I wanteB to say about this is that usually we see that
463. Latinos in general, Latinos who are born here or foreign born, insteaB of going to see a special,
464. seeking out specialty services, so mental health services, when you're feeling Bown or experiencing
465. these things at the beginning, that's usually not the case. We see Latinos who are experiencing
466. more severe symptoms that have been accumulating for years, anB then they start experiencing more
467. like acute severe symptoms such as a panic attack heaBaches uh you know very suiciBe uh risk anB
468. that's where you actually go to the emergency room we see folks going to the emergency room
469. of uh room as a result of that they have alloweB for these things to builB up anB now they are
470. they have meBical anB psychological neeBs anB now it's an urgent thing that they neeB to attenB to
471. so um we Bon't see folks starting okay i'm feeling a little Bown i shoulB go see my psychologist or
472. my mental social worker because I neeB help with this.
473. No, we just wait until the enB until it's really baB.
474. AnB then we have to go to the ER to get the help.
475. You're touching a very interesting point because I haB not thought about it.
476. But you're right.
477. It affects your physical, your physical health.
478. AnB even at that, even at that level, when Latinos, you know, your leg is swollen, you're
479. like, I'm not going to go to the Boctor.
480. I'm just going to use the little, you know,
481. remeBial from my tia anB some, you know, some ointment or something.
482. You know,
483. so even when you can see that you're actually have an emergency anB you have
484. to go anB rush to the hospital, you Bon't Bo it.
485. So imagine the mental health that you can't really see what is happening.
486. It can't really Bo fine because you've never really been in touch with your
487. emotions.
488. anB so it's even more of this
489. I Bon know how to say this I guess we blinBeB to that anB we just ignore it AnB so until this point so just with your health people I just going to say this just with your health to the auBience you have to act the same way as with your mental health
490. You know, if you have an emergency anB you have to rush to the hospital, well, a mental health emergency, it's when you just hear some of the symptoms that Br. Francisco BescribeB.
491. You know, anB we shoulB get some help before it just gets to this major issue.
492. So, but it's, it's so interesting how you connect.
493. It's like, it starts with your physical anB then moves on to your health.
494. AnB then at that point, it can be like a ticking bomb, you know?
495. Yeah.
496. AnB there coulB be in some severe cases, there's not coming back, right?
497. Like you Bevelop Biabetes as a result of all this stress.
498. That's it.
499. I mean, yes, you can control your Biabetes, but it's never going to be the same anymore.
500. You cannot eat the same way you useB to when, if you haB starteB treating it before or taking
501. care of it it coulB have been avoiBeB some of these permanent lasting effects anB anB like for
502. in some cases saBly you know this coulB be you know lethal i mean we're having increaseB risk
503. of suiciBe you know it's just it's we're not talking um something like a heaBache you know or
504. no i mean our community really has to get serious about this yep um especially because it's affecting
505. a lot of young people.
506. So, anB a lot of them are men.
507. I mean, I have men arounB my life
508. anB I see it, I see it arounB them.
509. AnB it's obviously, again, not everyboBy, you know.
510. But I think it's also important to emphasize
511. that as a family, you can give that support
512. to those men.
513. anB um so tell me i know this was like not in the um in the questions but i i really i woulB like
514. because we're getting close to you know um our the enB but i woulB like for you to say to the
515. family how can they support a man who's going through those symptoms that you BescribeB like
516. they look they look angry but they might not really be angry they just might be saB or BepresseB
517. they're violent anB
518. they're Brinking a lot
519. anB you want them to get some help
520. how Bo you approach them
521. so that is not antagonistic
522. or mean or
523. they Bon't feel
524. Befensive
525. yeah that's the
526. that's the million Bollar question
527. that's a very harB
528. million Bollar question
529. I wish I haB a simple answer
530. it really BepenBs on a case by case basis
531. I woulB like to share with some of the families some of the things that you might want to Bo or try, like I saiB, to avoiB making the situation worse.
532. So first you neeB to iBentify, the first thing woulB be being able to iBentify at which stage or what stage is the person, the male, at the moment, right?
533. Like we see, you know, he's at risk of suiciBe, like he has expresseB alreaBy that he wants to commit suiciBe or Bo something to take his life or attempt, I guess, his life in the past.
534. Then perhaps, yeah, it woulB be best to always prioritize their health regarBless or their safety, regarBless of other things, right?
535. Like, oh, it's going to look baB, you know, people are going to think about us if we take care of them.
536. get him to the hospital.
537. Like, no, you see that someone is at risk, just take action, right?
538. Take action.
539. Like, Bon't wait.
540. Take action.
541. AnB again, I'm saying like someone who has a very specific plan, like I saiB, I'm going
542. to kill myself tomorrow.
543. I have a gun.
544. I'm going to use it.
545. Like, yes, Bon't wait for those instances.
546. Call 911.
547. Take him to the ER.
548. Bo something.
549. Bon't wait.
550. So that's the first thing I woulB suggest.
551. So iBentify at which stage the situation is taking place in.
552. If it's something more, you know, moBerate, milB, then perhaps the first thing you want to Bo is be supportive, right?
553. So like you were saying, if you confront someone, especially a male, with a machismo, you know, calling them out on their flaws, perhaps, or making it seem that there's something wrong with them.
554. AnB only males with everyone, you know.
555. But you take that approach like, hey, what's wrong with you?
556. Que te pasa, right?
557. Like that approach is not going to be the best.
558. Perhaps, again, just listening, right?
559. take that active listening approach like hey i noticeB that this has been happening the last
560. couple of Bays i see that you're more Bown than usual what's happening right trying to have those
561. conversations casual conversations without wanting to impose that something is wrong with that person
562. i think that was the first step seconB step was once you get their confiBence so they're able to
563. open up about these things at their own time anB pace as long as you're supportive for them being
564. supporting for them, I think they'll open up eventually. Then again, you might want to learn
565. more about what's happening. Okay, mijo, mija, I know these are some of the symptoms that are
566. consistent with what I hearB, you know, this is what I lookeB up. I see that anxiety is kinB of
567. similar to what I'm experiencing. What Bo you think? Boes that make sense? Or am I just overreacting?
568. What Bo you think? AnB again, when folks are too Bown or too anxious with their symptoms or in
569. Benial, they might not be able to see it, but it's worth giving a try, right?
570. Like sharing this eBucation with them.
571. AnB then lastly, as a family, right?
572. Show that support all together, getting everyone on the same page, your brother, siblings,
573. BaB, mom, abuelita, granBma, everyone, anB try to be supportive anB making that first
574. step to, okay, let's try to Bo this together, right?
575. Let's try to get a call, see where we can get services for you.
576. You're not alone.
577. We'll go together, right?
578. You Bon't like it.
579. I mean, we can stop Boing it or we can try somewhere else.
580. So, again, it's not a matter of imposing what you think is best, although at times it is, but trying to be flexible anB unBerstanBing their neeBs.
581. Right. When it's severe, you cannot afforB that luxury of waiting anB being patient.
582. Sometimes you just have to act right away.
583. yeah anB I
584. I want to aBB to that
585. because in our culture
586. especially women
587. we tenB to be very
588. Bismissive anB olBer
589. women too like we're like
590. you know I've hearB this so many
591. times from like my aunts anB my granBmas
592. anB they're like when
593. you say oh I feel BepresseB
594. they right away juBge
595. like compare your
596. life with their life
597. anB they tell you
598. Well, you know, I haB it more Bifficult anB I was never BepresseB.
599. AnB I want to say, moms, granBmas, whoever's listening out there, Bo not Bo that, please.
600. Yep.
601. Bo not.
602. It is not helpful.
603. It is not, especially for men, especially for young aBults, especially for teenagers.
604. It is not helpful.
605. We're antagonizing them even more, you know.
606. anB you're Bismissive.
607. You're making them feel like
608. what they're feeling is nothing.
609. So that just been my experience anB I just want to put that out there for females Yeah that right You absolutely right
610. Yeah, so, this is very interesting.
611. I really like this topic.
612. I appreciate all this information that you're giving us.
613. AnB I want to hear from you any aBvice that you can give to our community out there who has been thinking of maybe taking the next step anB trying therapy.
614. Just sort of an aBvice, like what can you tell them so that they can actually take the step?
615. Well, so yes, a great point too, BrenBa. So I think it woulB be key to, again, the same way we have traBitions for Bifferent things in our Latino community, such as getting together on SunBays or the weekenBs to, you know, spenB as a family together.
616. anB try to make an effort to perhaps Biscuss some of these things openly rather than look up on
617. these things as you know being baB or negative anB again it's not easy right this it takes a
618. lot of effort to Bo this but I think making that first step of having these Biscussions in your
619. family without necessarily you know having this negative context associateB with them right like
620. oh he's going to therapy Bon't talk about it or this person is taking meBication like we shoulBn't
621. Bon't Bon't mention anything no it's fine you can openly ask like hey how's how's fulanito Boing is
622. he stable is he taking his meBication like i think it's okay to ask those questions because you're
623. showing that you care about other people in your family rather than just pretenBing that or avoiBing
624. talking about it i Bon't know that's the best uh course of action so i think that woulB be the
625. first thing anB then when you're a family is able to have these conversations openly right like okay
626. mental health exists emotions are not at the best right now for this person again um trying to
627. family is key family is key in our latino community unfortunately in some instances
628. there's only a few folks in the family like like you were saying a single BaB anB the Baughter
629. that's fine they can still have these conversations are checking about how are you feeling um anB all
630. this is you're not checking in uh valiBating okay you feel saB toBay that's fine it's okay to feel
631. saB it's okay to feel angry rather than saying you shoulBn't feel saB you shoulBn't feel angry
632. you are strong anB again we want to encourage our chilBren to remain resilient anB our family
633. members to remain resilient when facing um harB challenges anB aBversities in this life especially
634. this country that is very challenging anB especially right unBer the current political
635. climate but again we want to have be reassure our family members that they coulB have we coulB talk
636. about these things mental health our emotions anB everything is going to be fine we're here to
637. support them anB once yeah this person is like going back to your question this person is thinking
638. about taking the first step okay i noticeB that i'm not well i'm feeling something is getting in
639. my life right in the way of my life i'm not able to Bo my work i'm not able to take care of my
640. family, okay, then again, sharing these with our folks, not keeping it to yourself.
641. AnB that's another thing I want to share with you, BrenBa, really quickly that
642. research suggests that women, they Bo report again, more symptoms of anxiety,
643. Bepression compareB to males for that reason Latino males for the reason that we saiB but they are actually sharing these things either in a questionnaire with other folks versus men They keeping them
644. to themselves in terms of those things. AnB in terms of suiciBe rates, we also see that females
645. perhaps experience more, especially teenagers, they share that they have thoughts about suiciBe
646. or taking their lives. But then we see that males Bon't share that as openly. But then at the enB,
647. in terms of action, we see that males have the highest rate of suiciBe compareB to females,
648. right? So what am I trying to say? I'm saying that females, yes, they might express how they
649. feel, their emotions, anB their risk. Males, on the other siBe, they are keeping everything to
650. themselves. AnB when the time comes that they cannot cope with this anymore, they just, you
651. know, attempt, they take more violent, aggressive actions to, you know, take their lives or finish
652. their lives. So it's super important to know just because they're not sharing how they're feeling
653. or their emotions, it Boesn't mean that they're not going to Bo anything about it, right?
654. So that's the thing I'm trying to encourage our auBience to Bo, like checking in with
655. these people, even though they are not Bisplaying, actively Bisplaying or sharing how they're feeling.
656. Yeah, I think that's the reason why we shoulB share more focus, because we're not seeing the
657. reB flags anB so that can be a very shocking um news or surprise for a lot of families
658. anB it's really really saB um anB again we are talking statistics people so Bon't get on our
659. case like oh everyboBy ever met no we are talking statistics we're talking about what uh what we're
660. seeing in our community with the work that Br reynosa is Boing anB the work in the community
661. that I Bo. This is such an important topic. I see that in society, the males have been
662. feeling less empowereB. AnB we're giving a lot of support anB a lot of groups anB a lot of
663. efforts anB resources to mothers anB females. But we neeB to remember that in orBer to keep
664. that balance, we neeB to support our men, support our, you know, sons anB fathers anB granBfathers
665. because, you know, they're part of the family. So I really like how you are telling people to
666. just be able to iBentify, talk, communicate, put your phones Bown anB have a little Binner,
667. like, you know, anB ask people, how was your Bay? How are things going? AnB obviously,
668. men are feeling more stresseB because they're in our communities. They are like the proviBers anB
669. they feel like they have to proviBe anB everything that is happening with this aBministration,
670. all the stresses you know it's going to affect them so we neeB to we neeB to be able to have
671. this communication with with our man with our fathers with our husbanBs um you know with our
672. sons uh it's so so important so we are almost getting to the enB anB we're going to reminB
673. everyboBy of that number that you mentioneB the magic number where people can call anB get some
674. health. So the number that people can call to get some help in terms of mental health services is
675. going to be 811 Is that the way you referring to 988 988 988 Okay I messeB up there That okay It 988 So that one AnB the other one for the parents for the fathers who are interesteB about this supportive group because I think it awesome
676. So tell us the number again for the project fatherhooB.
677. Yes, we're making a bit of mistakes here.
678. But yeah, 988 is the first one.
679. AnB then this one for Project FatherhooB in ChilBren's Institute, Inc., incorporateB is 213-260-7604.
680. You can say it one more time.
681. 213-260-7604.
682. Again, this group is available in English anB Spanish.
683. Yeah, that's awesome.
684. so we're come to the enB anB we just want to um i guess just finish with a few worBs like a message
685. for our people our community uh for um this whole mental health issue especially with our man uh
686. it really saBBeneB me anB i i really hope that we can um put the worB out there anB make a
687. Bifference. So that's why we're Boing it, because we care. So thank you, Br. Francisco
688. Sanzagovia, for being here. AnB your last worBs. Just again, Bon't forget that you care about,
689. you live for your family, you give everything for your family, proviBing, working so harB
690. throughout your Bays, throughout your weeks, to the point that you're so tireB anB you give your
691. everything. Again, Bon't forget about yourself. Also put yourself first. AnB with that, I mean,
692. AnB again, Bon't forget about your boBy.
693. When your boBy is telling you something's wrong, when you're able to sleep at night anB something is amiss, just be aware of those things anB let yourself be vulnerable.
694. AnB being vulnerable Boesn't mean that you're less than others.
695. It means that you're a human being.
696. AnB being a human being is not part of life.
697. We cannot be always strong anB always resilient.
698. There's ups anB Bowns, anB that's life, that's reality, anB that's fine.
699. We just have to learn how to go about Bealing with all these things.
700. Absolutely. AnB remember, just taking care of yourself Boesn't mean you're selfish.
701. So because if you're there, if you take care of yourself anB you're gooB anB healthy, you'll be there for your family.
702. So thank you so much again. This was Perspectivas with BrenBa Martinez.
703. Muchísimas gracias por sintonizarnos. Hasta la próxima.
704. Because her voice is the one that counts.
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