Sojourner Truth - Friday, May 8, 2026

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1. Hi, this is Anjali Kiju and you're listening to People Powered Radio, KPFK 90.7 FM Los Angeles, 98.7 FM Santa Barbara and worldwide on the web at www.kpfk.org. Peace and love.
2. Welcome to Sojourner Truth.
3. We live in a global world.
4. We are all interrelated.
5. So on Sojourner Truth, we work to bring directly to you news and views on local, national, and international policies
6. and stories that affect us all, and we draw out how those of us most impacted, women,
7. communities of color, and other communities are responding. We also discuss the relationship
8. between art and politics. You are listening to Sojourner Truth with your host, Nana Jumthy.
9. Today on Sojourner Truth, we talk to Mildred Taylor and her husband, Rodney Taylor, who has been freed after 15 months in one of the deadliest detention prisons in the country.
10. And then we speak with Professor Marcus Hunter, who helps us understand the fuller context and urgent next steps to fight MAGA efforts to return us all back to the era of Jim Crow.
11. All this and more on Sojourner Truth Radio.
12. You are listening to Sojourner Truth Radio with your host, Nala Jumfi.
13. This past May Day, Rodney Taylor was released from Stewart Detention Center in Georgia,
14. one of the deadliest immigration prisons in the United States, with a long history of horrible conditions and medical abuse that included the forced and non-consensual hysterectomies of women detained there.
15. Rodney's wife, Mildred Taylor, fought furiously, ferociously for his release for 15 months
16. alongside several community organizations and hundreds of community members
17. Greetings to you both, so grateful you could be here with us
18. How y'all doing?
19. You're doing great. How are you? Doing great, doing great, doing great. I am just so thrilled
20. that Rodney is free. Mildred, you have been on the front line fighting to free Rodney alongside
21. and with the support of community members, community organizations, congressional members,
22. people that are local elected state elected so many people What has this 15 journey been It been a real roller coaster starting from January 15 2025
23. to Rodney being detained, to him not getting access to his prosthetics,
24. the new ones, to him falling, to him going to solitary confinement,
25. to us getting denied and then going into appeals to habeas, his ICE officers saying that there's
26. travel documents to fear, to going to DC, coming back, rallies, protests, signatures that have been
27. delivered to Atlanta ICE field office, more protests, more events, more advocacy. And then
28. one day I get a phone call and then he's home. So here we are today.
29. It sounds a little simpler than it actually was, but absolutely just really a journey. And I think
30. there's some lessons here that can be learned about how we move as community. Our brother,
31. Malcolm X teaches us that we've got to get free by any means necessary. And what that means is
32. that we put it all on the dry erase board, right? And we need everyone's help. Like this is really
33. a situation in which we had help from the grassroots to congressional folks, to local
34. electeds, to people who were just community members who were concerned that weren't even,
35. you know, paid as part of nonprofits, et cetera, just a whole slew of people. And I want to get
36. to that. But before I get to that, you know, I want you to talk about Rodney's story. Those who
37. know me from the show know that I'm an attorney and I know better than to have people talk
38. themselves unless they try to twist their words against them. So, you know, I want you, Mildred,
39. to talk about Rodney. Give people a sense of who we're talking about.
40. Rodney was born in Liberia, West Africa in 1978. He was born with several different disabilities,
41. including a left cub foot and a right foot missing altogether, three missing digits in his right hand.
42. Rodney was assessed by China's Children's Hospital in Liberia and they saw it fit for him to come to
43. the U.S. They thought he could thrive. Back then during the time Rodney was born, even now still,
44. children that were born with disabilities are often you know murdered, kidnapped,
45. using rituals, they're often are considered taboo. And so for his own safety and chance for him to
46. thrive, Shriners Children's Hospital saw that he could come to America and live. And during that
47. time, Liberia didn't have like detailed or significant imaging machinery like MRIs. Rodney
48. Rodney arrived here at the age of two and he was fitted with prosthetics.
49. He was able to walk for the first time by the age of three years old.
50. Rodney, by the time Rodney becomes 10 years old, he is a full double amputee.
51. He's amputated below the knee on his left leg and above the knee on his right.
52. Rodney becomes a barber, gets his certificate at the age of 14 in high school,
53. finished a program, a year program in Indiana, comes to Georgia at the age of 16, 17, and
54. it when some of the problems start to happen right So at the age of 17 Rodney becomes railroaded He accused of burglary He is told if he doesn plead guilty then he would have to serve five years in prison
55. And at that time in 1997, about 30 years ago, the prosthetics that Rodney wore were made out of wood.
56. They were extremely heavy. They were about 35 pounds each leg. And so the idea of being accused
57. of climbing out of an apartment window with heavy stereo equipment is not physically possible.
58. However, this is what they accused a Black man, Rodney at the time, a Black young man rather,
59. in high school because he fit the description of a Black man. And so Rodney ends up serving
60. about nine months. He gets a pardon in 2010. And Georgia is very conservative. Georgia doesn't
61. give pardons very easy. It's quite rare. And at the time of Rodney's pardon in 2010, it was a
62. Republican governor, Sonny Perdue, that gives Rodney his pardon. And so that makes it that
63. much more rare. And to be an undocumented person makes Rodney a unicorn altogether to get this
64. pardon. And so fast forward to who Rodney is, giving back to the community, providing free
65. haircuts, have his own nonprofit, access to healthcare with the health fair.
66. And then, you know, our world comes to a screeching halt.
67. Only 11 days after we engage, Rodney is detained not too far from our home with guns drawn,
68. with men marked, unmarked cars.
69. They're wearing bulletproof vests.
70. Our kids are in the car crying.
71. Rodney Taylor, Rodney Taylor, get out the car, get out the car.
72. At the time when they came and picked up Rodney, there was no paperwork.
73. There was no court order. There was no judge signature. There was no paper, nothing, no documents were handed to us. And so that's how he came to the country.
74. You are listening to Sojourner Truth with your host, Nada Jumfi, and we are speaking with Mildred Taylor and her husband, Rodney, freed after a 15-month campaign from Stewart Detention Center in Georgia.
75. Before we talk further, I want to remind our KPFK family that we are in Fund Drive.
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124. And we're reaching out to Dodger fans out there.
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129. Right now, the offer we have is the Shohei Otani bobblehead.
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138. FK.
139. You are listening to Sojourner Truth with your host, Nana Junkie.
140. And we are speaking with Mildred Taylor and her husband, Rodney Taylor, freed after 15 months in one of the deadliest immigration prisons in the country, Stewart Detention Center in Georgia.
141. So Stuart Detention Prison is known to be one of the worst, literally, basically a torture chamber. At Baji, we say detention is torture, period. But some torture is worse than others. And Stuart has such a long history.
142. and rarely do we get to hear from people who have been in these places to tell us just a little bit
143. about what has happened there. So thinking of like if there are two things that you want people to
144. know because they may never end up in Stuart, two things you want them to know about what it is
145. to be imprisoned at Stuart detention.
146. exactly what you said a prison it's the place is so it's like it's meant to just
147. take away your hope take away your ability to believe that you know i can get out of here
148. and this is is wrong what they're doing in there because the place is just so um
149. It's like, they treat you like you're not even human.
150. They treat you like you're not even human.
151. In their mind, we can treat you however we want to treat you.
152. And by the time you can say anything about it,
153. you'll be out of this country.
154. So it's like, in their minds, we can treat you
155. like you're not human.
156. All your needs are disregarded.
157. Everything, like your just basic human needs,
158. is disregarded and to give you the bare minimum they treat you like you uh like like like you
159. like your cattle i said this before like we like cattle waiting to get slaughtered
160. and they treat us just just as if like it's the place is run down in fact this is a facility that
161. makes 1.9 billion dollars a year profits and the places run down they they don't they rarely fix
162. anything and they just just want you just yeah that's why they put in the middle of nowhere
163. because it just meant for you to deal with it and and they don't expect anybody to say anything
164. they don't expect by the time they ready to cover everything up and by the time
165. you so you you you get up out of there you're going to be so far another country that
166. nobody's going to ask you who might come back and ask you what was you doing how was your treatment
167. and Stuart and it's just this is terrible it's terrible and even like I said I've been out for a
168. week and so many guys that got deported they reach out to me now you know they reach out to me now
169. just like bad in their day still they don't believe I got out of there they asked me how you
170. you got released.
171. And I'm like,
172. and they're like,
173. man,
174. I don't believe it.
175. Cause when,
176. when a lot of us in there,
177. they wasn't even giving nobody bond.
178. They wasn even giving nobody nothing Wow Man it it it a it a terrible place And on top of that being a person who is Black and disabled I know that there were so many
179. trials and tribulations that you went through just on that, with this facility, this prison,
180. this torture space, claiming that it had the quote-unquote resources and capacity
181. to be able to make sure that you were okay.
182. And it was completely different than that.
183. Tell just a couple things about what it was like for you
184. as a brother who was a double amputee being in that prison.
185. It was like, I've been disabled for a long time.
186. And I never felt like I was disabled until I went in there.
187. they made my disability like stand out so bad that you was like it was and they was like they
188. didn't care they're like you know that you're no different from everybody else why should we
189. treat you any different you're not going to be here long so why should we treat you any different
190. and i'm telling them like no you know the difference between me and a lot of people in
191. I speak English and I've been in this country for a long time.
192. And I know that you have rights,
193. there's human rights that you have to abide by.
194. And when I see it not going on,
195. I'm going to say something.
196. Times when the AC wasn't working,
197. I had to speak up about that.
198. And they put me in a hole behind that.
199. Times when they refused to feed me,
200. I'm telling you that I'm disabled.
201. I shouldn't have to walk the length of two football fields back and forth just to get a meal.
202. You should be able to bring that to me.
203. They're like, no. You're no different from everybody else.
204. They tell me, if they bring the food to you, that's a luxury.
205. I'm like, no. It's my human right.
206. They were like, no. That's a luxury.
207. You should be no different from everybody else. They told me, well, if you can walk down to see
208. your wife in visitation when she comes once two times a month you can walk to this child every
209. day i'm like no that's that's not right just the simple fact of me getting you know my prosthetics
210. and me be able to get go see my um my doctor for my prosthetics is also it's like you have to
211. fight for everything you're already in a place where your mind is
212. it's your mind is going every which way but then you have to fight just for
213. regular regular regular thing that they're supposed to be doing this thing that as a human right you
214. supposed to have this right and they just refused to do it and it was and if it wasn't for all the
215. other all the people that fought for me on the outside and the only time they addressed all of
216. these issues is when somehow on the outside brought attention to it that's the only time
217. they would address the issues and they still didn't even do it like they had a doubt i was
218. telling them the shower, the shower seat, they said, well, we got showers for people with
219. disability. I don't have any legs and the shower seat that they have is not even equipped. If I
220. sit on that thing, I'm going to fall and hurt myself. And they're like, well, that's what you
221. have. That's what we have for you. That's what you have to use. And it's not right. Just for me to
222. get a wheelchair. That was a huge uphill battle. You know, I had a, I had a damn near refused to
223. get out my bed and tell you know tell one of the one of the guards out there that was that was that was I was friendly with like you know man I can walk He was like well
224. then I have to
225. talk to somebody and see if I can get
226. you to the medical. And when I
227. got to medical, when the nurse
228. he was like, man, I see you having a big issue.
229. And if it wasn't for
230. him, these two guys
231. that I know, and I
232. spoke to them on a regular basis,
233. I had a rapport with them.
234. And if it wasn't for them two guys,
235. I still wouldn't have got a wheelchair.
236. They still would have been like,
237. well, we're not bringing your food to you no more.
238. You just have to walk down there.
239. If you don't walk down there, you don't eat.
240. That's up to you.
241. Just outrageous.
242. Just outrageous.
243. And again, thank you so much for sharing with us,
244. letting us know,
245. because so many people don't hear what's happening
246. and particularly as it pertains to folks that are disabled and are being held in these detention prisons.
247. Mildred, the work that it took.
248. You always talk about how this is not just you, even though without you it don't happen,
249. but that there's so many other people that have been involved.
250. And just wanting to end here with some hope, because there are so many people who are listening right now who have family members that are detained, friends that are detained, that are trying to understand, you know, how can they do something for their loved ones?
251. What would you say to them right now?
252. I would say there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
253. Don't give up.
254. If you don't know where to turn, reach out to local organizations like Black Alliance Just Immigration.
255. Other organizations that are doing this work that have the experience, that knows what they're doing to help support your family.
256. There's no question too crazy to ask.
257. There's many doors closed in my face because it was like, no, we don't relate to this immigration stuff you're talking about.
258. immigration is not a coffee shop conversation it's not something people always talk about
259. so going knocking on doors asking for help was very very very challenging um but don't give up
260. on your loved one fight and fight and fight nobody gets left behind uh when Rodney was chained
261. and detained I was too so were the children so was our family so we all felt it unfortunately but
262. don't give up here keep fighting call someone for help send some emails send a a a call pick up the
263. phone contact your um congress your elected officials um get with these amazing organizations
264. that know what they're doing and um and ask them for support because they're usually willing to
265. help almost always willing to help if they have capacity so you're never alone and don't feel like
266. you alone. Be encouraged and deep down, reach down in your faith because our faith is what God is
267. through. Big time. Oh, big time. I remember there was a time when Rodney was like, I want to give
268. up. Where are you going? You can't give up here. And so we picked you back off each other. He
269. encouraged me. I encouraged him. But we didn't give up. So don't give up. You're not the only
270. We're in this together.
271. We're in this together.
272. We are in this together.
273. Mildred Rodney thank you so very much So happy again for you And thank you so much I know you continuing to do the work As you said no one left behind and I know you continuing to fight
274. for others. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And that was Mildred and Rodney Taylor,
275. who have fought for Rodney's release after 15 months in detention at Stewart Detention Prison.
276. an immigration prison in Georgia.
277. We are in Fund Drive, and every donation counts.
278. Gary, I know we've got some great gifts for folks.
279. I know I've got about five people who want to donate at least $100 each right now.
280. What do they need to do?
281. 818-985-5735 is the lucky number to call to pledge your support for Sojourner Truth Radio.
282. Since its founding in the early 2000s, Sojourner Truth Radio has become a vital platform for connecting grassroots movements.
283. Hosted by Nana Jumfi, the show was born out of an urgency to center voices often excluded from mainstream media.
284. From black women leaders to frontline immigrant organizers.
285. Over two decades, it has covered pivotal moments, the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, the global women's strike, Ferguson uprising, all covered here on Sojourner Truth, Standing Rock, and countless international human rights struggles.
286. Its legacy is one of unwavering, truth-telling, radical solidarity, and bridging local and global resistance.
287. Originally created by Margaret Prescott and now with host Nana Jumfi.
288. I'm not sure if you've noticed that we've been offering the Shohei Otani bobblehead.
289. A lot of people are collecting these.
290. This is a must-have for any Dodger fan collector.
291. So we want you to go to your phone and pledge your support for an $80 donation.
292. We're offering the Shohei Otani Most Valuable Player bobblehead.
293. Now here's a clip.
294. Here's a clip about the fans who are standing in line early in the morning for a Shohei Otani bobblehead.
295. Let's listen in for an $80 donation.
296. 818-985-5735.
297. Why are you here?
298. I don't know why I'm here.
299. I should be with the thousands of Dodger fans that have swarmed Dodger Stadium for their chance to get a Shohei Otani bobblehead.
300. Yeah.
301. Some who have been lined up for many hours already have one in their hands.
302. Only a limited number of those bobbleheads are being handed out, so many fans started lining up this morning.
303. Kimberly Chang is live from Dodger Stadium with all the hype.
304. Hey, Kim.
305. Oh, Cher, your voice sounds a little raspy.
306. I don't think you're feeling well.
307. You might be able to get down here in time, but you know what?
308. I don't think so because a lot of people have been here since early this morning.
309. Take a look at Sky 5.
310. You can see Dodgers fans just trickling into the stadium right now.
311. According to the Dodgers team, promotional items are limited to about 40,000.
312. So far, more than 40,000 fans are expected here at the stadium tonight,
313. so it's possible that not everyone will get one of those coveted bobbleheads.
314. First pitch is at 710, but there are a lot of people who arrived early, some at 7 a.m.
315. Loyal fans lined up before the gates opened.
316. As I was walking, I lived two blocks away from the bus stop.
317. Before, I was trying to hide my Dodger blanket on my hopefully people are not judging me.
318. Araceli Torres woke up at 5 a.m., took a bus, and walked to the stadium to be the first in line.
319. Senya wanted the bobblehead.
320. She's not the only one.
321. The free giveaway, a Shohei Otani bobblehead.
322. He's done a lot for L.A. in general, and it's just, I heard it's a real collectible piece to have.
323. It's really cute.
324. You're a huge fan?
325. He's really good. Yeah, he has diehard. Yes.
326. These fans traveled from Japan hoping to get that rare collectible.
327. You flew from Japan to come to this game for the bobblehead?
328. Yes, bobblehead.
329. Love Shohei?
330. Of course.
331. The last time the Dodgers gave away an Otani bobblehead in May, fans also lined up before the gates opened.
332. You'll be here for several hours. That means no lunch, no dinner.
333. It's worth it.
334. They all told me it's worth it.
335. And I'm not going to sell it on eBay. I'm going to keep it forever.
336. You hope someday, you know, it makes good money once he retires.
337. It's part of the memory and the games.
338. So you're going to keep yours?
339. Yes.
340. I'm here because of you, Frank Buckley.
341. You had me come down here early this morning.
342. What did Frank say this morning?
343. He said, be the first 400 in line.
344. And we have already seen video of some people receiving those very rare bobbleheads.
345. Now, you heard some of the fans there say that they're planning on keeping theirs.
346. Well, I've already seen some listed online for a couple of hundred dollars on the secondary market.
347. I even saw one for $3,500.
348. Boarding Live, Kimberly Chang, KTLA 5 News.
349. I know, I'm so upset.
350. Kimberly, can you go get one for yourself and leave it on your desk?
351. Yeah.
352. Oh, I'm trying, I'm trying.
353. My God, you can hear the helicopters hovering.
354. I know.
355. Incredible.
356. Thanks, Kimberly.
357. More Sojourner Truth with Dr. Marcus Hunter after this station break.
358. Hi, I'm Danny Glover and you're listening to fiercely independent KPFK 90.7 FM in Los Angeles, 98.7 FM in Santa Barbara and worldwide at kpfk.org radio powered by the people.
359. You are listening to Sojourner Truth with your host, Nada Jumfi.
360. Pleased to be joined now in this segment by Dr. Marcus Hunter.
361. Dr. Hunter is a transformation architect, a highly regarded author, an academic, a policy expert,
362. and a professor and humanitarian currently teaching at UCLA.
363. Greetings, Marcus. Thank you so much for joining us.
364. It is an absolute pleasure. Thank you.
365. You know, I don't even know where to begin.
366. Their attack level is gone.
367. You know how we have like arcs of escalation when we're doing our organizing?
368. They clearly have arc of escalation for their organizing too.
369. and they've moved into a different part of the arc, as we see, in terms of these attacks against
370. Black folks. Let's look first at Louisiana versus Calais. You know, you have people who understand
371. in our communities and beyond that something very terrible has happened, and that certainly there's
372. an attack on democracy that has occurred. But I don't think folks really understand how the attack
373. on Black voting rights is an attack on democracy and how it impacts Black folks everyday life Right Because it so partisan and politics is so nasty and awful nowadays
374. Talk to us about that, though, because it does mean something. It's not nothing.
375. Right. The Supreme Court did not simply weaken the Voting Rights Act. It weakened the protective
376. spine of Black citizenship in modern democracy. When voting protections disappear at the same
377. moment, state surveillance and enforcement powers expand. We can insert here ICE, for example.
378. Black communities understand exactly what kind of crossroads this country is approaching.
379. And this is something that Black voters, Black people were saying leading into the presidential
380. election, and in many cases were not listened to. Because what we're witnessing is not isolated
381. policies or isolated Supreme Court decisions. Rather, they are a coordinated architecture of
382. rollback from attacks on Black studies, to attacks on Black women in leadership,
383. to the weakening of voting protections, the expansion of DHS power. The through line is
384. clear. Shrinking Black democratic influence in American life is a primary target and objective.
385. You know, when I talk to people about this, and thank you so much for that, because you've stated it and drawn the line so clearly. When you talk to people about this, I don't think people really understand why that matters to the whole project.
386. The ways in which Black freedom has literally meant freedom for everyone else. And therefore, the restriction on Black freedom is inevitably going to mean the restriction on everyone else. Like, yes, if they can shoot Keith Porter, then obviously they can shoot Nicole Good. Do you know what I'm saying? Like, these things go together.
387. Absolutely. The history of the nation, which is something that has been politicized and is being banned in many different ways, teaches us that there was a population, a series of populations who were not included as voters when the country was establishing itself.
388. itself, enslaved African people and women. And so when we see attacks on women or we see attacks
389. on black people or we see limits or restrictions being placed on those groups is an attempt to
390. return back to a place where only white men with property were able to have a say in how the country
391. moved and flow. There are many people who see that as the version of making America great again,
392. that if we get back to that, that's when America was great. And we know for a fact, America's
393. greatness is something that is in the future. It is not currently something that it has rested on
394. at any point in its history. It's something that is perhaps in the near future, but a future
395. nonetheless. So these attacks are not accidental. They're precise, they're concise, and they're
396. happening at multiple levels. So there's a reason black history, black studies, black political
397. power and Black representation are all being targeted simultaneously because, as I say in my
398. book, Radical Reparations, memory is power. Education is power. Voting is power. Representation
399. is power. These battles are not separate culture wars, as many folks will try to say. They are
400. struggles over who gets to shape the future of American democracy and who gets to be included.
401. Yeah absolutely And when you were talking I was thinking about like Epstein class then you know now Jefferson class then right And all the classes in between where you just have white men with property who have the you know trying to consolidate the money consolidate the power while they engage in all kinds of atrocities
402. While trying to present themselves as the innocent and as the moral and as the superior in the space.
403. You talk about radical reparations and thinking about how much we have moved in terms of even the public psyche on reparations.
404. One of the things that I do as the ED of the Black Alliance for Just Immigration is participate in the United Nations Permanent Forum for People of African Descent.
405. Reparations is a key issue there.
406. I also work with organizations, the black folks and black orgs that have been pushing for reparations in the state of California.
407. Right. And so it's something that just they went from a conversation that wasn't been had being had by many to a conversation certainly being had by many.
408. And now suddenly, instead of talking about reparations, we try to hold on to some of the basics as we see these people take billions of dollars.
409. Right. Billions out of our communities to invest back into what we thought.
410. I thought the new Jim Crow, we got it clear that mass criminalization and mass incarceration was not the way to go.
411. I mean, really, this rollback that you're talking about in dollars and cents.
412. Absolutely. I mean, on the reparations front, and you'll know this very well when you're in these spaces, we often hear or we might even say we always hear there is no money for reparations.
413. No money for guaranteed housing, no money for public health, no money for black communities harmed by generations of extraction.
414. Yet somehow billions can materialize overnight when that project aligns with state power enforcement or political vanity.
415. Insert here President Trump's ballroom. All of a sudden, billions can be found.
416. And so part of what we also see is that working families are being told to tighten their belts while Washington is writing billion dollar checks for walls, wars, raids and ballrooms.
417. So it also gets to the sense that we need to understand that how the nation, how America makes a budget and what it decides to spend on is a reflection of both its fears and its loves.
418. And so when we see money often in American history being spent on the black community, it's usually around policing or surveilling it, not educating it, not amplifying it, not supporting it.
419. It's usually about tamping it down, keeping it in place. Money will be spent on that.
420. But money to repair, you know, the centuries of trauma of enslavement, that's the money we're told doesn't exist.
421. And then every single day, it seems we're seeing new bills come through, often through reconciliation, which is not meant to be used the way that we see being used to authorize ballrooms.
422. Thinking about the organizations, the leadership in all the different spheres, whether we're talking about in the political sphere, whether we're talking about the educational sphere, whether we're talking about the sphere of civil rights and social justice movement.
423. we see these directed attacks you know particularly those attacks are taking the form of criminalizing
424. but it almost like they you know brought back the criminalization language or your terrorist language specifically to attack again Black leaders Black leadership those who are pushing back against the rollback that we clearly see is happening Talk with us
425. a little bit about that because it seems almost like a steamroller that's very difficult to stop.
426. Oh, absolutely. On one side, what you see is a concerted effort to attempt to either silence folks literally by gerrymandering districts so that you lose Congresswoman Jasmine Crockett out of Dallas, quite literally.
427. and you also see the silencing chilling effects happening in our news media where it's been made
428. very clear if you talk about certain things or you publish certain things you're now under the
429. ire we've also seen it in television and and other places where the FCC is now you know fining people
430. so that shows get canceled if you're covering something that makes the administration upset
431. and so we see the way in which the airways have been politicized not in favor of the American
432. in public, but instead out of fear of the current administration. The other point about it, I think
433. that's super important, especially for listeners in Los Angeles, is that everything that you're
434. describing, these are not abstract politics. Federal priorities shape whether communities
435. receive investment in schools, transit, clean air, disaster preparedness. Shout out to all of the
436. survivors of the Altadena and the Pacific Palisades fires, the Malibu fires, and affordable
437. housing, and whether public resources continue flowing towards punishment and spectacle.
438. So ultimately, a big part of what we're seeing here is while there is this concerted attack
439. on a population, what we also know from the voting when we disaggregate it is that all
440. Black people, while the majority of Black people sort of voted for Kamala Harris, there
441. was, for example, about 75% of black men voted for Kamala Harris. So there's 25% that did not.
442. These kinds of efforts, whether or not the folks who are putting them forward know it or not,
443. may actually do the opposite of what they're looking for, which is to disorient and distort
444. people's perception of one another, where in fact, what you may have is people being even more
445. unified because these attacks have made it clear that, oh, y'all are talking about us.
446. And who gets to count as black are a lot of people. It's not just people whose skin color is black.
447. It's people whose citizenship status is unclear or undocumented. You get to be treated poorly.
448. If you are Haitian, you have to have a big fight about keeping your temporary status.
449. You know, there are certain things that are happening that I think are illustrating across the board that people who are in different categories are not included in what there are some who are making America great again see as not being American.
450. thinking about the lessons we learned to fight back because one of the things that i am concerned
451. about and i'm sure others are including yourself is people trying to rebuild what they see as
452. crumbling there must have been some flaws in the system as it was set up if it was so easily
453. been turned on itself, so easily dismantled in some places like the East Wing of the White House,
454. you know? And what are some of the lessons or how should we be thinking about what needs to be done?
455. right now in ways that just don't have us rebuilding the same shaky foundation space
456. that we had built on before? Yeah, I'll start by invoking the glorious sociologist,
457. Audre Lorde, who is often quoted for saying, the master's tools will not dismantle the master's
458. house. And oftentimes people take that quite literally. And when I'm teaching it with my
459. students, I try to expand it out to say that she's talking about the master and the master's house
460. and the master's tool in the context of American slavery, or we can even say the global slave
461. empire. And why that matters as context is because the master's tools cannot dismantle the master's
462. house because the master didn't build anything. The master told the enslaved people, I want a
463. house, make it happen. Okay. So what we have to remember always is that we quite literally built
464. this country. We are builders. Black people are builders. When they were migrating out of the
465. traditional South and going from Natchez, Mississippi to Chicago, Illinois, they had a
466. dream in their mind of a church or a barber shop or a hair salon, and they didn't simply just dream
467. it. They built it. So this is why during the great migration on multiple blocks, there would be four
468. churches or three hair salons or four barbershops. And so I think it's important for us as black
469. people to remember our ability, our superpower as builders. And to remember that part of what's
470. happened in many ways is that not a lot of things were built in our favor in terms of other
471. administrations that have come through proceeding and then following the first Trump administration
472. so that it hasn't been all that difficult for him to tear down. And then when we see the tear
473. down projects that are happening, they're all really in reference to the civil rights
474. error.
475. So that leaves questions.
476. Okay, so since 1968, 1970, let's just be generous and say 19, let's just use 1975,
477. 1976, since that would give us a nice 50 year mark.
478. There was nothing to tear down in that period other than affirmative action.
479. That tells us everything about what we have been accepting.
480. And so I hope that all of us who are paying attention are watching that for better or for worse, executive power can look like this.
481. OK, executive power can be a president partnering people every single day, which means Mumia could be out of jail any day of the week that there is a Democratic president, as opposed to what we've been made to think, which is wait until my second term is almost done.
482. ask me nicely wait quietly and maybe i might on this we're learning you can insurrect and on the
483. first day that i'm elected president all of you are free records clean so also i want us to not
484. just be looking at trump for all of the illegality that he's doing but also for this very muscular
485. version of the executive branch that we have never been exposed to other than when it is being used
486. as a weapon to further suppress black people? What does it mean to have a muscular executive
487. office that is expressing the freedom and liberation of black people, which we know
488. is the freedom and liberation of everyone else? These are the kinds of notes we should be taking.
489. So later when people come and tell us, oh, I don't think we can do this. For example, when
490. former presidential nominee Kamala Harris was asked about reparations and HR 40, she said
491. that is something that Congress should do But we are watching a president do all sorts of things So that means that the president can do things that we previously were told were only able to happen through the legislative branch
492. So we should be taking notes and we should be making sure that we're holding whatever progressive administration comes accountable to being able to exercise the full muscular aspects of the executive branch.
493. Because we know in American government, it may be divided government.
494. We don't know if you're going to have the House and the Senate. We just know that you have the presidency. What are you going to do executively in favor of all of these communities that have been put into pain and suffering, waiting and voting for a new reality?
495. Thank you for that framing, as well as the context, thinking about that in the additional context of asking for what we want instead of the compromise.
496. The great Sherilyn Ifill, who's now the director of the 14th Amendment Center at Howard Law School, when affirmative action fell, she said, you know, one thing that it makes me think of is that affirmative action was a compromise.
497. Right. It was a compromise. What we want is actually way more than that.
498. and it caused me to think there's so many times that what we are fighting for is like Haitian TPS
499. right with Baji we're like let us fight for permanent protections right it's okay as a band-aid
500. but the band-aid can't be a band-aid for 20 we got to be willing to fight move into our courage bag
501. move into our culture bag move into our community bag yes to pull ourselves together to be able to
502. fight for everything brand new socks and drawers we want it all absolutely and to your point on
503. the temporary it's like how is a nation known as haiti which helped america liberate itself
504. from being the colony of the british empire still in temporary position you know this is the way
505. we've been made to accept certain things and part of it would be because you know the the
506. progressive presidents say, my hands are tied. I can't do this. I can't do that. And this is in my
507. lifetime, the first time I've seen an executive branch. Now, a lot of it is illegal. So I want
508. to be clear about naming that. And at the same time, seeing it do all sorts of things, you know,
509. which have led to the shutdown of this, the closing of this, the settlements over here and all of
510. these other things. It's like, oh, so the president does have power to shape things.
511. And we have often been made like, okay, now I'm president. You all go out and you all go try to
512. shape things. It's like, well, that's what our vote is about, is empowering you to be the shaper.
513. And what we've been getting is less shape and more symbolic representation, symbolic support.
514. And it feels good sometimes. And then when you look up, it's very easy to tear it down.
515. Absolutely.
516. Absolutely.
517. Fascinating.
518. Thank you so very much for speaking with me, Dr. Hunter.
519. I really, really appreciate that.
520. This has been a great conversation.
521. We definitely want to have you back.
522. We got to talk more about how we push it.
523. We push it.
524. So I really appreciate you.
525. Thank you so very much.
526. You already know.
527. I look forward to it.
528. You are listening to Sojourner Truth with your host, Nada Jumti.
529. And that was Dr Marcus Hunter on fighting the rollbacks on full citizenship in this country full citizenship for Black people citizenship that impacts us all We are almost at the end of the hour and you still have time to give to show us some love
530. Gary, how do folks get in where they fit in, in supporting KPFK and Sojourner Truth?
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609. And that's our show.
610. I'd like to thank our guests.
611. I'd like to thank the Sojourner Truth family, including my dear sister, Margaret Prescott, our board operator, Ozzy Flamenco, and our producer, Gary Scott.
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