SWANA Podcast - Sunday, June 21, 2026

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1. Hello and
2. Welcome to Radio Antofada, a weekly review of politics and culture from Kolkata to Casablanca,
3. produced by the Swanda Region Radio Collective for Pacifica Station, KPFK in Los Angeles.
4. I am Rana Sharif. Radio Antofada has temporarily moved to a KPFK podcast,
5. but we will soon return to KPFK's airwaves. Until then, be sure to check out our weekly
6. shows at kpfk.org. We will be posting our weekly shows on Saturdays at noon Pacific Standard Time.
7. In this week's show, we begin by discussing President Trump's latest proclamation of an agreement with Iran, a statement that may hold beyond the next tweet storm, since Iran has suggested for once that the two sides have at least agreed to sign a memorandum of understanding.
8. But with Israel doing its best to, of course, sabotage any peace, the outlook remains uncertain.
9. David Lloyd speaks with Radio Nafad's regional expert, Hamoud Sadeh, about how things look from the perspective of the Arab Gulf states.
10. We then come much closer to home, to right here in Southern California, to Garden Grove, California more specifically,
11. where the Palestinian Youth Movement has initiated a campaign with a coalition of other local groups to close down GKN,
12. a corporation notorious for the recent failure of a chemical storage tank that forced the evacuation of nearly 50,000 local residents
13. and threatened an explosion that would have wiped out much of the neighborhood and spread toxic fumes all over Orange County and beyond.
14. Though that immediate danger is over, PYM has drawn attention to GKN's role as a subcontractor to Lockheed Martin,
15. the manufacturer of the F-35 bomber that Israel has used to carry out its ongoing genocide and war crimes in Gaza and Lebanon,
16. and for which GKN supplies essential plastics.
17. We speak with two organizers of the campaign, Sofia Oueda and Laya Al-Bata of the Palestinian Youth Movement.
18. And finally, David Lloyd speaks with Emaya Gelman, author of the new book, The Anti-Defamation League and the Racial State,
19. a critical history of the Anti-Defamation League, ADL, as a Cold War neoconservative institution,
20. just out from the University of California Press. We talk about the political history of the ADL,
21. its anti-communism, and in particular, its use of charges of anti-Semitism to close down speech
22. and activism by supporters of Palestinian liberation. Over to you, David.
23. So thank you, Rana, and a warm welcome to our listeners and welcome to the show, Hamoud.
24. On Monday this week, Donald Trump announced for perhaps the 40th time what he insists on calling a deal with Iran, but which he this time claims will actually be signed on Friday.
25. What will be signed is neither a comprehensive deal nor a treaty, but a memorandum of understanding whose terms remain unclear and unpublished so far.
26. unusually however rather than deny trump's pronouncement iranian officials have so far
27. corroborated its general outlines though as before differences continue about what its content
28. actually is meanwhile there fury in israel both at this so deal and at netanyahu complete failure to deliver on his ambitious plans for the destruction of the Iranian regime and its supposed program to build a nuclear
29. bomb. It seems certain that Israel will continue in its efforts to sabotage any peace accord with
30. Iran, if only by continuing its assault on Lebanon, despite the apparent agreement between the United
31. States and Iran that Lebanon and Hezbollah should be included in any peace agreement.
32. Indeed, Israel's continuing strikes on Lebanon drew a quite sharp and uncharacteristic rebuke from Donald Trump this morning, and we're recording on Tuesday of this week.
33. So I'm speaking to my fellow co-host and fellow SWANA Region Radio Collective member, Hamoud Salhi, for his expertise on the region and what is being said about it.
34. So, Hamoud, when does the agreement actually take effect? Has it already entered into force or will key provisions only begin after the formal signing and implementation process? Or will it only really take effect after the 60 day period of negotiations that apparently the memorandum stipulates?
35. I think, David, I think at this point, the best answer is we really don't know. Is this another communication, a propaganda pursued by the current administration to give time to rally forces for later to come down the oil prices?
36. we really don't know. And we have a pattern where we've seen this quite often. How is this different?
37. I really don't see any difference. The only difference is that we seem to be Russian
38. to sign in something that is not binding, that there are at this point differences in explanations
39. or in the terms of the agreement. So in the end, it's a big question mark. And we don't know where
40. is this going to be heading? Are we going to have a final agreement? Or are we going back to
41. attacks and resume the war? So it's really it's a question that that is difficult to answer
42. from an objective perspective. Well, let me take one of the key claims that Trump has made,
43. which is that the Strait of Hormuz is now open for shipping, and he's encouraging people to use it.
44. But has the status of the Strait of Hormuz actually changed?
45. The U.S. says the Strait is fully open and that Iran will not impose any fees or restrictions on shipping.
46. Iran appears to disagree, suggesting that future charges could be introduced,
47. even if they're not called a toll, to cover security, environmental or reconstruction-related costs.
48. So what are we to believe? Which interpretation is correct?
49. It's really whatever you want to believe.
50. But in fact, what the president is saying has resonated well in the oil market.
51. The prices are down and they're going down very quickly.
52. Interestingly enough, there is the issue of reserves, which the United States seems to have a major, major series of problems because we are heading where the oil will be depleted.
53. So from that perspective, this seems to me, without considering that we've been before, it serves a public relations scheme more than the actual dealing with the actual differences.
54. because there are differences. The Iranians see that a fee is necessary, and they are going to
55. package it like other canals do a fee that will be used to pay for the construction for the environmental They are going to package it in such a way that will help them make the point In that case what do we know about the final terms of the
56. agreement? And based on what's been made public so far, as you say, there do not appear to be
57. major compromises on several core issues. So what do you think has been agreed to? And will further
58. details emerge during the implementation period, do you think, or are we going to be kept in the dark?
59. I think the details will emerge sooner than later, I think. But I think what is clear is that both
60. parties have reached a conclusion that continuing this path is dismantling to their national
61. interests. The Iranians, as well as the Americans, see continuing this war is disastrous for their
62. economy and they want this to stop. The biggest challenge is Netanyahu, the Israelis who have
63. other agenda and that complicates the things further. There are other some kind of solution
64. that could be sort of agreement that I'm sure the administration sees positively, but they cannot
65. come out and say it because of the repercussion that this is that we are going back to the 215
66. treaty and that will be bad for the current administration. So on the nuclear issue,
67. there is sort of some kind of agreement or we could reach a compromise. On the uranium,
68. there are two statements there. I think one is that the United States will lead this.
69. And then we hear today that actually the international atomic energy will do this.
70. The compromise is there, it most likely will be the atomic energy. As for the money, the frozen
71. money that the United States is holding. That sort of, it seems to, we have seen an opening
72. from the Qataris. And Donald Trump has already said that he doesn't mind if somebody else pays
73. for them or including the Qataris. And what we have seen is that the Qataris will sort of find
74. a way off to pay the Iranians. And the Iranians don't care where the money will be coming.
75. So there are issues where if we stay away from the media, we could see something coming out.
76. And it's sort of looked at more than we think.
77. And remember, when you factor 60 days, you're closer to the elections.
78. And that's sort of a very big, big problems for the current administration.
79. So, Hamoud, you mentioned Israel and its efforts to sabotage this deal,
80. but also all the previous efforts at making deals. Just very quickly in the time we have left,
81. what consequences or enforcement provisions can be applied against Israel by the United States
82. if Netanyahu keeps seeking to sabotage a process that Trump clearly desperately needs? And it's not,
83. you know, it's not just his generosity by any means, but he's cornered into making this
84. process work. So what sanctions can be placed on Israel by this current administration without it
85. totally losing face and support? Really none. And what we are going to see is that these reports
86. that President Donald Trump is upset, he's yelling at Netanyahu and describe him in ways that appeal
87. to the majority of what people think. That's what we are going to do. But in the end, we might see a
88. temporary freeze, particularly during the signing of the agreement. But once that's passed, we are
89. not going to see anything happen in reality. Israel will continue to do what it wants to do,
90. and the United States will not intervene.
91. Well we continue to follow this of course Hamoud and we have you back on when we know a little bit more The agreement will be signed on Friday We will be uploading this to KPFK online on Saturday
92. So we'll come back to this issue and see if we do actually have a little more certainty about what's going on.
93. So thank you.
94. It's always great to speak with you, Hamoud, and get your wisdom on these matters.
95. I don't know about the wisdom, but thank you, David.
96. Thank you very much.
97. Take care now.
98. Bye-bye.
99. You are listening to Radio Intifada Online at kpfk.org in Los Angeles.
100. I am Rana Sharif of the Swana Region Radio Collective that produces this weekly show.
101. When we return, we will speak with our guests, Sophia and Layal, who are members of the Palestinian Youth Movement, or PYM, and the Arms Embargo, GK and out of Garden Grove.
102. We turn now to the Palestinian Youth Movement's campaign and coalition to get GKN out of Garden Grove.
103. Many Southern California listeners will know that GKN is the corporation notorious for the recent failure of a chemical storage tank that forced the evacuation of some 50,000 local residents
104. and threatened an explosion that would have wiped out much of the neighborhood
105. and spread toxic fumes all over Orange County and beyond.
106. But the Palestinian Youth Movement, the PYM, have further reasons to want to close it down.
107. We speak today with Sophia Awida and Lael Batta,
108. who are members of the Palestinian Youth Movement
109. and the arms embargo GKN out of Garden Grove campaign coalition.
110. so let me ask you if you can explain first of all what happened in garden grove with this
111. defective tank that holds mma and explain what mma is and and i i guess you're both from the
112. neighborhood right so tell us tell us about your experience with that and and what what caused it
113. and what this chemical is.
114. Maybe Sophia, start, and then we'll talk to them.
115. So on May 21st, firefighters were called to the scene
116. for a chemical tank malfunction at GKN Aerospace's
117. Garden Grove facility.
118. GKN is a military component manufacturer.
119. They also do commercial products as well.
120. The tank that malfunctioned was fully expected to fail,
121. and there were two catastrophic outcomes possible.
122. The first is that the tank would fail and cause a huge mushroom cloud explosion
123. that would likely damage the surrounding area and release methamethacrylate, or MMA, into the air.
124. The second is that the tank would leak 7,000 gallons of MMA into the parking lot.
125. Thankfully, neither of these happened, but the tank ended up cracking under the pressure,
126. which led to the issue being mitigated under luck.
127. But the incident as a whole raised many questions for the community and brought a lot of stress and issues to light here.
128. I'm just going to go into what MMA is, but it's a volatile organic compound or a VOC, which is a hazardous precursor chemical that's used in a range of applications.
129. prolonged exposure to MMA can cause pulmonary, neurological,
130. and reproductive health risks,
131. as well as significant environmental risks.
132. So because of the tank's malfunction
133. and the risks that it posed to the city,
134. the city of Garden Grove announced an evacuation notice,
135. which was actually a wider,
136. and then made smaller and then smaller again.
137. So they redacted it and then issued it.
138. Communication was very unclear,
139. and some residents were even unaware of what was going on,
140. especially because those whose first language was not English,
141. since police were driving through the neighborhoods
142. and saying, like, just announcing evacuate now.
143. Many heard the information from their neighbors.
144. So it was a very uncertain time, obviously.
145. Yes. And I mean, Garden Grove is is, as you say, a city.
146. It's not like some remote area where there were a few people living, but actually could cause quite a lot of devastation.
147. Right. Leala, do you want to chip in here with your experience of what was going on?
148. Yeah, absolutely. And the GKN Aerospace Facility is right next to an elementary school.
149. It's surrounded by homes like this is like quite literally at the center of like Garden Grove life.
150. So this isn't just some warehouse that's all by itself and only would affect like a couple houses.
151. The reason that over 50,000 residents were evacuated was because over 50,000 residents were under direct, were directly being threatened by this by this chemical crisis, like right here in our backyard.
152. Garden Grove is also a really significant place because it's a very working class immigrant community.
153. It also neighbors nearby neighborhoods that are really important to local ethnic minorities, including Little Arabia.
154. I actually I'm not from Orange County. I grew up in the Bay Area, but I have a lot of memories and experiences of driving down all the way to Little Arabia from the Bay Area with my parents,
155. like at least once every few months in order to connect the community that was also there.
156. So although I'm not from Orange County, I spend a lot of time there. I have a lot of community there. And it still feels like they're endangering my neighbors, even though I wasn't like Sophia, like an evacuee of the same nation, just to clarify.
157. I mean, that's interesting what you're both saying, because this is very typical, is it not, of the location of petrochemical plants and industries right in the middle of working class and immigrant neighborhoods, not in the affluent neighborhoods.
158. Yeah, which really like who is considered disposable and who is considered who is considered worthy of the protections from companies like GKN in our backyards.
159. Right. So your coalition then that you formed and we'll come to the two issues that are that are particularly prominent in that.
160. So the coalition is not only the Palestinian youth movement, but also local community groups.
161. Can you say a little bit about those, maybe, Sophia?
162. The groups leading this campaign in our coalition is the Palestinian Youth Movement, LAOC IE Chapter, the VietRise OC, Harbor Institute OC, and OC Justice for Palestine.
163. And those OCs are Orange County.
164. So VietRise is a Vietnamese organization from the neighborhood?
165. Yeah.
166. Yeah.
167. Okay.
168. Okay. So it was actually the Palestinian Youth Movement's initiative, I gather. Is that correct,
169. Laila? It was more of like a community effort to kind of come together around this, although the
170. PYM has been researching weapons components and the impacts of these weapons, weapon component,
171. military component manufacturers in our neighborhoods. We're mostly doing exploratory
172. research on like where these facilities exist and like their connections to the Zionist entity It wasn until we came together with Fiat Rise OCJ Justice for Palestine and Harbor Institute to come together to launch the campaign around GKN
173. Yeah, that's great.
174. Talking of research, and we'll come back to that,
175. I was struck by the fact that the article
176. in the Intercept on GKN actually drew on your research
177. for PYM's research, which I thought was very impressive
178. that you were being cited by an investigative journalistic outlet like The Intercept.
179. But we'll come back to that.
180. So first of all, there's the question of the citing of these very dangerous containers
181. in a highly populated urban neighborhood,
182. and that that in itself would be reason to ask for GKN to be closed down.
183. But PYM is pushing with this coalition for something more than the end of GKN's production there as a dangerous entity.
184. So tell me, first of all, I know you have three demands that you're presenting to the city council.
185. Can you explain what those are? And then we'll talk about why it is that you want to close it down completely.
186. First, I want to emphasize that although GKN is the one who's responsible for this, we know that they're never going to hold themselves accountable or actually take action to rectify this on their own.
187. So that's why our demands are towards the city who's allowed them to continue operations and who has the power to hold them accountable and actually make a direct impact.
188. So our first demand is to reject GKN's expansion, which is actually explicitly for them to double their production of F-35 canopies.
189. The second is for a moratorium, an immediate moratorium on existing, expanding and new military manufacturing facilities and for the city to review their environmental and labor regulation compliance.
190. And then the last one is to shut down GKN because this isn't a company that we want in our neighborhoods.
191. It's not a company that has shown that they can act responsibly in our neighborhood.
192. And this recent chemical crisis has only brought to light their numerous failures over the years.
193. Okay, so let's begin with that first point.
194. Do I gather that GKN was scheduled to expand its plant in the neighborhood?
195. it? Yeah, not only is GKN, quote unquote, like planning to expand, but they're actually
196. already going through an expansion process as we speak. So in 2024, GKN Aerospace announced plans
197. to double its F-35 canopy production capacity, specifically at its Garden Grove, California
198. facility. And we think that this is likely in response to this chronic transparency canopy
199. shortage that has impacted the readiness of this F-35 program, despite other efforts being made to
200. find secondary fenders for this part that GKN produces for these F-35s. But Lockheed Martin,
201. who's the subcontractor that GKN is producing these for, it still depends very heavily on GKN
202. to meet their demands for these parts. And so this expansion is ongoing and estimated to be
203. completed in 2027. But GKN has kind of broken up this expansion into dozens of smaller permit
204. applications submitted to the City of Garden Grove. And so GKN was even issued a permit
205. on May 19th just two days before the chemical crisis And although some have already been issued many more of these permits are outstanding meaning that we can still intervene on GKN ambitions
206. to expand at the expense of our neighbors.
207. You mentioned the canopy for the F-35.
208. Can one of you explain what that actually is
209. and give us a kind of visual picture
210. of what we're talking about here?
211. And then maybe explain what the F-35 is.
212. Sophia maybe you can start there the transparency canopy is the stretched acrylic bubble that tops
213. the cockpit it's the the like window that goes up and down to cover the pilot and it contributes to
214. the overall stealth of the F-35 it has a thin layer of a transparent radar that of absorbent
215. material that coats the outside of the transparency canopy and keeps the jet hidden from radars
216. And this canopy then is made in some fashion from MMA. Is that the acrylic?
217. Yes. So MMA, the chemical in the tank, is used in a wide range of applications, but it's also used in the production of F-35 canopies.
218. What exactly is the F-35, which I think Sophia mentioned is the stealth bomber. That's correct, right?
219. So Leal, tell us more about it and what it's used for.
220. Yeah, absolutely. So the F-35 is a stealth fighter jet that is produced for countries across the world. What we're talking about specifically is the F-35IA that's produced specifically for Israel. And these jets are known to be the deadliest fighter jets in the world. Part of that reputation comes directly from its stealth capabilities, which is what the Transparency Canopy contributes to.
221. It drops what we call bunker busters, which are 2,000 pound bombs. We've seen these used across our region. But as some examples of areas, this F-35 has been used for like internationally recognized war crimes.
222. In October 2023, they were used in the Jabaliya massacre that is very well known now.
223. July 2024, they were also used attacking the neighborhood of El Massawi, Moassi, and they
224. were using these 2,000 pound bunker busters on these designated humanitarian state zones.
225. But I just want to add one thing on the importance of the canopy is that one, it's been a significant
226. point of stress in the federal F-35 program.
227. we've seen the transparency canopies reported to fail more frequently than expected and
228. necessitate replacements we also know that the jet is not operational without the canopy so
229. it can't fly at all without it so that's just one point that really shows the importance
230. and the role that gcan plays in the federal f-35 program so this is why they would be wanting to
231. expand their plant because there's a shortage of these canopies and they need to provide them so
232. that more bombs can be dropped on civilians. So what we're talking about and the reason you want
233. an immediate moratorium, which is your second demand, is that they're not only endangering
234. the neighborhood of Garden Grove, they're also not only endangering but slaughtering people
235. through the product that they're making. And so this is really part of the effort to prevent the
236. supply of arms to Israel to continue to conduct its genocide, I think we need to emphasize
237. that that genocide in Gaza is going on alongside what is effectively a genocidal war in Lebanon It is a war of displacement It proclaimed to be modeled on the destruction of Gaza So we talking about some pretty serious war crimes here that you intervening to try
238. to stop. How is the coalition talking about this cross-national, cross-oceanic coalition,
239. not only within the neighborhood, but actually in terms of thinking transnationally of Lebanon,
240. Iran, Gaza. How is that discussion working out in the group? Because that's quite a stretch
241. from your local neighborhood in danger to a much larger international coalition, effectively.
242. Honestly, I don't think it's really a stretch at all, because this is like a particular incident
243. that has brought to light for our community in ways that other arms embargo campaigns can't
244. exactly like blatantly display the connection between the industrial war complex and our
245. communities at home and how we're directly affected as well. And it's not just an issue
246. abroad. It's an issue here in our neighborhoods, literally in our backyards. I think that's a
247. really important point that global capitalism has this network of production and of course of sale
248. and therefore of use of these kinds of things that impacts everywhere,
249. where it's produced and where it's used.
250. So I think this is a really important and exemplary kind of coalition.
251. It's not only the F-35.
252. You've also discovered that they produce components for the King's Stalian helicopters.
253. I believe that's a Sikorsky rather than a Boeing product, correct?
254. Sikorsky is under Lockheed Martin, I believe.
255. Yeah, so GKN was awarded $4.5 million in subcontracts to provide aircraft parts and services for the CH-53K King Stallion heavy lift helicopters for Israel.
256. And this helicopter is a production line that's actually exclusive to the Israeli Ministry of Defense.
257. And it's the IMOD actually announced themselves that this helicopter is going to be specifically customized with them for the Israeli Air Force.
258. I don't know if you want to speak more on what helicopter provides.
259. Yeah, like very specifically, like part of this customization process is going to include integrating avionics, navigation systems and electronic air suites that are supplied by the Israeli Ministry of Defense into these machines.
260. So they're integrated. It speaks to this larger pattern of this integration of Israeli and U.S. military machines kind of coming together.
261. Is this the helicopter that they use? I know they were having to lift the Caterpillar D9 bulldozers that were destroying homes in Gaza when the insurgency were able to take out those bulldozers, which they did pretty regularly, that they would send in helicopters to pull them out because it was hard to drag them out. Is that the kind of use that this sort of heavy duty helicopters put to?
262. I'm sure that they'll use it for things like that.
263. I'm not sure if that particular incident was using this specific helicopter,
264. but yeah, it's likely going to be used for things like that.
265. Do you know what the component is that GKN produces for that?
266. We're unsure of what specifically it is.
267. The only thing that was quoted is aircraft parts and services for this helicopter.
268. Well, I know that reading the Intercept article that we'll link to
269. when we're doing our social media ad for this show.
270. According to the intercept that used your research,
271. GKN has made more than $255 million from the research.
272. subcontracts with Lockheed Martin. And also, as you mentioned already, Sophia, the $4.5 million
273. in relation to Sikorsky. So this is, would you say, profiting from genocide in quite a big way?
274. Yeah, I would say definitely yes, especially because their expansion is directly linked to
275. their contracts with Lockheed Martin and their need to fulfill these contracts for Lockheed
276. Martin to manufacture transparency canopies for at least 10 F-35 aircrafts to the government
277. of Israel.
278. So these contracts and the money that they're getting from this is likely directly linked
279. to Israel and or to their complicity in the genocide in Israel.
280. Well, certainly if they're creating and selling these massive weapons to Israel, they're
281. gaining their profit from the genocide.
282. I think we can make no bones about saying that.
283. The third demand that you have is to shut it down.
284. So not just a moratorium while it's responding to the crisis that it created and to hold them accountable, but actually to shut it down.
285. So I'm wondering, Lyle, has PYM had any such campaign before, do you know?
286. Have there been efforts to actually shut down factories?
287. I'm thinking of, you know, Palestine Action in Britain, which has managed to actually shut down Elbit factories and get them to withdraw from cities.
288. But I'm wondering if PYM, which I know has done tremendous work on the Maersk campaign and to prevent the shipping of arms to Israel.
289. But I'm very interested to know if there has actually been an instance in which this kind of community based activism has succeeded in closing down a plant producing arms that are then sent off to Israel.
290. We as the PYM have not won a campaign like this yet. I know that there are other PYM chapters that are looking into their own neighborhoods and bringing the People's Arms Embargo campaign into their own communities.
291. I know that New Jersey has a warehouse that they're focused on. I think it's also on the embargo for Palestine dot com website.
292. But Jersey City has a campaign regarding interglobal forwarding services, which is the United States co-signer and freight forwarder for the Israeli Ministry of Defense.
293. And over on a weekly basis, more than a thousand tons of Iowa found military cargo is passing through that warehouse.
294. So I know that that is something that they're working towards building a broad based coalition to house the warehouse in that community as well.
295. That's really that's really important. Thank you. And I did wonder, how can people get involved with this campaign? Are you looking for further support? Are you looking for donations? So how could people get involved with you? And if there's like websites and Instagrams, we can put those on our social media for you.
296. Yeah, absolutely. Right now, our goal is to pressure the city of Garden Grove to meet our three demands.
297. We believe that the city of Garden Grove has a responsibility not to permit and protect a facility that endangers our local residents while producing these components that are tied to Israel's military supply chain.
298. And we know that these local decisions have global consequences.
299. And so what we're demanding is that the city of Garden Grove reject GKN's expansion,
300. shut down GKN and put a moratorium an immediate moratorium on existing expanding and new military facilities to ensure that our community is being protected And these demands are based on precedent
301. both locally and nationally.
302. The city of Garden Grove has regulated other industries,
303. such as the pickling industry is very heavily regulated
304. in the city of Garden Grove,
305. specifically citing the impacts of local residents
306. the impacts of pickling facilities on local residents.
307. So we know that this is something that the City of Garden Grove has done
308. for other what they consider high-risk industrial, high-risk industrial uses.
309. I'm sorry, I have to laugh at that.
310. So pickling can be regulated, but the production of toxic chemicals is left to go forward.
311. Yeah, so they've updated the city code to prevent, to prohibit those
312. what they consider hazardous materials, but have not yet prohibited future hazardous weapons,
313. component manufacturing facilities, and other risk industrial uses. So with that, we are,
314. of course, if anybody is local to the LA Orange County Inland Empire area, the next Garden Grove
315. City Council meeting that we're showing up to give public comment to is on June 23rd, Tuesday at 6.30
316. p.m. Our website embargo for Palestine dot com slash L.A. O.C.I.E. has all of the information
317. that we've kind of discussed today, including our research brief. Please sign the petition
318. that's also available on there to email the city of Garden Grove to take these actions to protect
319. our community. And if you are part of a local organization, you can also endorse our campaign
320. on that page. And then for any future updates, you can follow either any of the four steering
321. organizations on Instagram. We're at PYMLAOCIE. You can also follow VietRiseOC, OCJPalestine,
322. or Harbor Institute OC. And any donations, please donate via Venmo at the username PYMLAOCIE.
323. That's really tremendous information.
324. I'm so pleased to have that.
325. And we will post it as we send out information about the show.
326. And I really want to thank you for your time.
327. I'm afraid that's all the time we have for this segment on the show today.
328. But we will look forward to following up on this campaign.
329. And I hope you'll send us information if there's any breaking news that we should be reporting on.
330. So thank you, Sophia.
331. Thank you for what you do, Leal.
332. I really appreciate your work on this.
333. And thank you for coming on Radio Intifada.
334. Our guests for this segment have been Sophia Awida and Leal Batta,
335. who are members of the Palestinian Youth Movement and the Arms Embargo GKN
336. out of Garden Grove Campaign Coalition.
337. Thank you, Sophia and Leal, and good luck with this campaign.
338. Thank you.
339. You will have you on again.
340. Take care.
341. You are listening to Radio Intifada online at kpfk.org
342. in Los Angeles. I am Rana Sharif of the
343. Swanda Region Radio Collective that produces
344. this weekly show. When we return,
345. we will speak with our guest, Imaya
346. Gelman, author of the new book,
347. The Anti-Defamation League and the Racial State.
348. Welcome back to Radio Intifada Finally today we speak with Amaya Gelman author of the new book The Anti League and the Racial State
349. a critical history of the Anti-Defamation League as a Cold War neoconservative institution.
350. The book just out from the University of California Press.
351. Hi, it's good to be here.
352. It's very good to have you, Amaya. Let me just explain to our listeners that Amaya is also the director of the Institute for the Critical Study of Zionism, which examines the political and ideological work of Zionist institutions in Palestine and transnational contexts.
353. She co-produces and often co-hosts the podcast Unpacking Zionism on Apple Podcasts and at the website criticalzionismstudies.org.
354. Welcome to Radio Interfather, Amaya.
355. Thanks a lot, David.
356. So people generally think of the ADL as an anti-racist organization that combats racial discrimination as well as, or of course, including anti-Semitism and as an ally historically of the civil rights movement.
357. So what's wrong with that picture?
358. I don't think people necessarily think that anymore.
359. I think that's the ADL is coasting on its historic narrative about itself, which itself was sort of constructed and in many ways fictional.
360. But I think at this point, people largely have understood the ADL as an advocate, whether they understand it as an advocate for the Israeli state or for the genocide or for repressive policing.
361. In the United States, we saw the ADL call for the police to brutalize students on campuses and celebrate the deportation of Mahmoud Khalil. And those things, I think, have sort of led up to the ADL's very overt embrace of the MAGA right, just to, you know, for the icing on the cake.
362. Like after many such overtures, the ADL finally at its conference this March, this past March, featured two MAGA pastors as, you know, as sort of central speakers.
363. So it has fully, you know, made the leap, even though it still talks about its role in fighting anti-Semitism and still constantly references like, you know, its days of working with Martin Luther King Jr., etc.
364. But why people have had this sort of fictional notion of the ADL as a civil rights organization for so long is actually, I think it's partly our fault, because when we talk about civil rights in the United States, we often are using it as shorthand to mean progressive, right?
365. To mean like opposed to what we understand as racism, interested in the redistribution of power, right?
366. The displacement of white supremacist power.
367. And that's not actually what so much of civil rights work has meant in the United States.
368. You know, much of civil rights work in the 50s and 60s was really doggedly anti-communist.
369. The ADL was part of that.
370. it's it entered the work of kind of anti-discrimination and egalitarianism messaging
371. and messaging and teaching materials at that time and its message was capitalism is the only way
372. that we'll ever achieve racial equality and if leftists tell you they're interested in combating
373. racism they're trying to trick you into supporting it into they're trying to recruit you to
374. totalitarianism so yes the ADL did participate in legal cases and it did advocacy that produced
375. important anti-discrimination law, but it always stopped short of challenging the actual fabric
376. of the state. And when the civil rights movement took on more radical demands, and when I say
377. radical I don mean like crazy right I mean radical in the sense of going to the root like affirmative action right Or the idea that schools should teach from an Afrocentric perspective The ADL immediately rejected
378. these, called them reverse racism, declared the organizations that were looking at them extremist,
379. and often tied them to the Soviet Union, declaring them to be kind of like a foreign insurgency
380. into the US. So it's not strange, really, that we have this mistake about the ADL as a civil
381. rights organization. But I think looking at the history of the ADL asks us to look a little deeper
382. at what liberalism really means and how the US has dealt with rights and race and justice generally.
383. Well, let me let me continue on this theme just for a moment. Because although the ADL has this
384. reputation of being supportive of the civil rights movement. It was, if I understand correctly
385. from reading you and hearing you speak, quite antagonistic to the Black Power movement and to
386. Black radicalism in general. And can you tell us a little bit about that story and that history there?
387. The ADL spent a lot of effort, surveys and, you know, investigations, trying to figure out
388. what to make of Black demands for liberation. It conducted studies trying to see, you know,
389. whether Black people were anti-Semitic, whether demands for Black liberation were actually
390. disruptive to the state. And until 1969, it continually concluded that it was okay,
391. right? Like, don't worry about Black people. Even in fact, if you cast your mind back to
392. Gunnar Myrdal's study of the United States and racial injustice in the United States,
393. An American Dilemma. And there's a line in there where Myrdal says, like, don't worry,
394. I don't think that if Black people get equality, they're going to become communists.
395. And the ADL was sort of on the same on the same page. In 1969, the ADL was involved in New York
396. in the sort of uprising that took place around the Ocean Hill Brownsville school experiment.
397. And just to very quickly summarize, Ocean Hill Brownsville schools were sort of emblematic of
398. the time. They were 100% segregated. They were what we would call now apartheid schools.
399. They were incredibly under-resourced. Kids were going to school in shifts. The teachers had
400. largely given up. Many of the teachers were white, certainly not all of them. And it wasn't
401. only the white teachers that had given up. And there was a sort of general sense that students
402. were being treated like they couldn't learn. So parents in that neighborhood at one point
403. occupied the Department of Education meeting and demanded better. And the solution that came out
404. of that was a proposal actually, interestingly, from the Ford Foundation, which is famous for
405. figuring out ways to sort of defang Black demands for rights, was to turn the schools over
406. to the community control of Black and Puerto Rican parents.
407. And in the course of doing that,
408. the schools decided that there were 19 teachers
409. who were not, as they said, in sympathy with the experiment,
410. 19 teachers who had to leave.
411. And most of them were Jewish.
412. So when the UFT, the United Federation of Teachers,
413. took umbrage at this idea that schools would transfer out teachers
414. as sort of flouting their professionalism ladder,
415. they decided to use as a tactic the claim that it was anti-Semitic, even though clearly, clearly it was about the schools themselves.
416. And the ADL sort of took that up and immediately reversed itself, saying, well, whereas we had said that Black aspirations for justice
417. You know, that militancy might be a result of impatience for justice. Now, they suddenly took up this idea of black anti-Semitism, like literally out of whole cloth. They published what they called a preliminary report on it. They never published another report on it.
418. But they identified it as different from other forms of anti-Semitism because they said it merged the old kind of idea of Jews as an insurgency and a conspiracy with leftist ideals that said that Jewishness was an insurgency against the left.
419. So it created an idea of anti-Semitism that was specifically anti-left and specifically anti-black. And then they proceeded from there. In 1974, they published a book, The New Anti-Semitism, which accused the entire new left, including the anti-war movement and the Jewish left, of being anti-Semitic for not supporting the interests of the state, which they said were the same as Jewish interests.
420. So yes, absolutely. They went after Black liberationists. They leveraged the idea of anti-Semitism to do it. And fundamentally, they pitched it as a need to defend the West and Western democracy against these insurgents who were left Black, third world, anti-colonialist, and etc.
421. And they linked it all back to the Soviet Union. After the demise of the Soviet Union, they just carried on. They didn't need the Soviet Union anymore. They continued to attack.
422. this is this is fascinating because i was actually about to ask you about this this
423. theme in your book of the adl being an ally of western empire um say just a little bit more
424. about that uh before we turn elsewhere because i'm i'm really curious how the adl situates itself
425. in that particular period when israel is still sort of presenting itself as a decolonized
426. state when Israel is still on good terms with the Soviet Union in the 60s.
427. Soviet Union is, of course, one of its first endorsers in 1948. How did that affiliation
428. with anti-communism and Western empire evolve within the ADL?
429. The ADL was founded by a group of people, a sort of group of immigrants who had arrived in the
430. 1800s from Central Europe. They were called broadly German Jews. And they arrived already
431. identified with European culture, colonialism, nationalism, and whiteness. You know, as they
432. entered the, you know, the new world, their Europeanness meant whiteness. And they were
433. capitalists and they, and believed in the ideals of the settler state. They believed in settlement,
434. They believed in you know civilizing the savage land And they carried that quite naturally forward into viewing anybody who challenged that as an antagonist So they were anti from the very beginning When they really took it up was when Nazis began to use the accusation of Jewish communism to propagate anti in Germany And at that point the Anti League response was not like stop being anti It was Jews are not communists And so they published
435. which of course was ridiculous because plenty of Jews were communists. And it was an important
436. working class movement. These were upper class Jews who also did not want to have any kind of
437. relation with the working class. And they continued to sort of deny the existence of
438. Jewish communism until the point where it was it came home, right? It was we were in the United
439. States, there are lots of Jewish leftist organizations, there's the Red Scare in the
440. 50s in the United States, and then the Anti-Defamation League simply begins going after
441. Jewish communists, including trying to joining with other major Jewish organizations that had
442. formed from that same set of immigrants in that social class to purge leftists from Jewish
443. organizations throughout the 50s. But they weren't only concerned with Jewish leftists.
444. Their devotion to the state, to settler ideals, to colonialism was also what underwrote their
445. devotion to defending the United States in the Cold War. They became really a quasi-state Cold
446. War agency in the 50s. And it was the reason that they adopted Zionism. It wasn't out of some
447. interest in like an agrarian project or some kind of liberation project. It was about understanding
448. the Israeli colonization project as a way to expand Western influence in the Swana region,
449. particularly in the Cold War and viewing Arab states as potential allies of the Soviet Union.
450. Thank you. So that, of course, brings us to what, for me at least, is the highly important question,
451. which is its relation to the settler state of Israel and how it has consistently targeted
452. activists in solidarity with Palestinian liberation, not just recently, but over its
453. long history through mostly entirely spurious charges of anti-Semitism, through the abuse of
454. anti-terror laws and so forth. Can you give us a sketch of the history there and what it reveals
455. about the ADL's mission and how it conceives of itself historically and now?
456. I mentioned that the ADL became interested in Zionism in the 50s,
457. but it didn't actually become interested in Israel itself until the late 60s.
458. In 1967, several of the leaders of the ADL went to Israel in the wake of the Six-Day War.
459. And they began from that point sort of considering what they understood as their role of interpreting Israel for the American public.
460. So they, for example, generated magazine articles and actually like news segments that they distributed widely across networks in the United States, which presented Israel as a sort of mini America, like where the issues of the day in the United States were also reflected.
461. So oh you interested in women moving into the workplace Look in Israel women are in the workplace So you interested in racial solidarity Look here an Arab enjoying Jerusalem right next to a Jewish settler And so they undertook this sort of interpretive role which merged I think fairly quickly into a direct relationship with
462. government agencies who are also interested in doing that. The ADL's relationship with the
463. Israeli state has, of course, developed. For one thing, the Israeli state depends very much on the
464. ADL's documenting and faux reporting and hyping of what it calls an anti-Semitism crisis,
465. because that facilitates Israeli demands for U.S. aid and for support, and also helps drive,
466. for example, media to refuse to cover Israeli genocide of Palestinians and instead focus on
467. how Jews feel in the United States about being accused of genocide. So that's an important role.
468. But the ADL also has so many sort of back projects. It's very difficult to track them, actually. It has a tech project with Silicon Valley. Does that stop at the effort to get, you know, X and Facebook to censor posts? I'm guessing not, right? There's other stuff in development. There are relationships that are being facilitated between Silicon Valley and Israeli tech.
469. Tech as a whole industry is rather Zionist.
470. And also it works in the way that the ADL really likes to work, which is top down.
471. You know, an individual who controls a lot of resources, who can make policy.
472. That's always been the ADL's method of working.
473. You make the point in the book that it's not a membership organization.
474. It's not a membership organization.
475. It works.
476. And especially now, it doesn't I don't think it needs like the small donations that it
477. that it makes when it conducts like the walk for hate or whatever, it's got mega donors pumping
478. money in through the back door. And, and its relationship with the Israeli state now is
479. almost certainly much more closely tied to military functions. That's partly because within,
480. within the Israeli sort of political sphere, people move from the military into politics and
481. into tech and into corporate jobs, whether they're running tech firms or running weapons firms.
482. So the integration is quite close. The other thing that I think is useful to understand is you can't really follow the money in the way that you might in another political organization, because these are personal relationships that are densely overlapping. And it's very, it's very hard to tease them apart.
483. The ADL has been consistently trying and with great success to insinuate itself into schools
484. and universities to undertake what it calls training in anti-racism or non-discrimination.
485. How has it managed this penetration of the educational sphere? And what do you think
486. have been the consequences or the effects of the ADL's takeover of anti-discrimination policy on
487. our campuses and in our schools?
488. For a long time, the ADL entered schools by offering free stuff.
489. So it's, you know, you're a school that needs to address anti-Semitism or wants
490. to sort of show that you're doing it.
491. So you accept this offer of free stuff.
492. It changed obviously because now the need for a consultant like the ADL is driven by lawfare where schools are being sued or where they afraid of being sued The ADL has kind of created its own market by sowing panic about
493. anti-Semitism. But the other thing that the ADL is doing right now, which deserves more attention,
494. maybe a future show, is working with right-wing organizations that have long been trying to seed
495. programming on university campuses, including the Tikvah Fund, to work on programs like
496. civility discourse, you know, like sort of trying to depolarize.
497. And this is a new area of intrusion, I think, that needs a lot of attention.
498. And the effect, of course, is that it shuts down learning and protest and study, and it
499. makes people precarious, and it turns universities and schools over to the right.
500. Well, thank you.
501. And just so our listeners know, you're doing a reading at Skylight Books here in Los Feliz in Los Angeles on July the 2nd.
502. What time is that?
503. And how can listeners find out more?
504. You can look at Skylight Books, but I'm also trying to track book talks and events on my website, which is emayagelman.com.
505. I think that event is at 7 o'clock.
506. I hope people will come through.
507. I'll certainly be there myself.
508. And hopefully we can continue this conversation for longer there.
509. Amaya. I look forward to seeing you here in July and hope to see many of our listeners there too.
510. See you there.
511. And I've been speaking with Amaya Gelman, author of the new book, The Anti-Defamation League and
512. the Racial State, a critical history of the Anti-Defamation League as a Cold War neoconservative
513. institution. And the book is just out from the University of California Press. Amaya is also
514. the director of the Institute of the Critical Study of Zionism, which examines the political
515. and ideological work of Zionist institutions in Palestine and in transnational contexts.
516. And hopefully you can check out that Institute for the Critical Study of Zionism
517. at criticalzionismstudies.org. Thank you, Amaya, and back to you, Ranad.
518. Thank you, David, and thank you to our listeners for listening to Radio Ensefada,
519. produced by the Swanda Region Radio Collective and available to you weekly online at kpfk.org.
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