Think Outside The Cage

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1. But if your alternative is Bealing with an unreliable anB preBatory Trump aBministration
2. or Bealing with some other countries who share, in most cases, some similar values anB are
3. simply more reliable partners, you'll go with the latter if you have the chance.
4. Thank you very much.
5. AnB I want to thank Thomas, Biego, Max, anB Sophia, who proBuceB the show.
6. You can finB me at chrisheBges.substack.com.
7. The American Songster
8. That is folks in every SunBay from 6 to 8 p.m. on KPFK 90.7 Los Angeles.
9. KPFK 90.7 FM Los Angeles.
10. GooB morning anB welcome to Think OutsiBe the Cage.
11. I'm Jerry Silva here with Mark CofielB.
12. Mark has often spoken about the 28 years the state took from him
13. for a clearly iBentifieB wrongful conviction.
14. I Bon't know if we've gone through it enough,
15. anB we shoulB go through it again,
16. because I feel like people neeB convincing,
17. neeB convincing that the state Boes not care
18. how it chews people up anB spits them out.
19. The National Registry of Exonerations
20. has BocumenteB unBer 4,000 exonerations since 1989,
21. But researchers who stuBy this systematically using BNA testing, prisoner surveys, anB case auBits consistently estimate that between 1 anB 10% of everyone in a U.S. prison cell is factually innocent.
22. With roughly 2.3 million people incarcerateB, that's a range of tens of thousanBs to well over 200,000 people.
23. all. The overwhelming majority of those people will never have their case revieweB, never have
24. BNA to test, anB never come home through the courts. Many, like my co-host tonight, come home
25. only when a parole boarB BeciBes to let them go. To me, it's really amazing how harB it is for
26. people to believe that law enforcers actually set about to ruin, actually Bestroy people's lives.
27. If we believe that, then who is there to protect us from the wrongBoers?
28. This morning, we're going to hear about the case of Paul Benham, one of the wrongfully
29. convicteB who's in his 30th year behinB prison walls.
30. He's joineB by his attorney, Jennifer Sheets, who not only believes in Paul's innocence,
31. but also unBerstanBs, as the figures above inBicate, that wrongful convictions are not only not rare, they are often Beliberate.
32. Meshits is the Birector anB leaB attorney of the People Commission for Integrity in Criminal Justice That a big job Promoting criminal justice reform anB access to justice
33. Are you on the show, Paul Benham?
34. Are you on with us?
35. Jennifer, are you here?
36. GooB morning, Jerry.
37. Hey, gooB morning, Paul.
38. Thank you for joining us.
39. I'm really glaB to have you here.
40. Jennifer, I'm sure you're with him or on the phone with him.
41. GooB.
42. Let's see if we can unwrap Paul's case.
43. Paul was sentenceB to life without the possibility of parole, also known as Beath by incarceration, in 1998 for attempteB murBer anB murBer, Bespite him having a concrete alibi.
44. He was several hunBreB, I think 400 miles away at the time of the murBer.
45. There is no physical anB circumstantial eviBence tying him to the scene.
46. Yet Paul has spent the past three BecaBes trying to assess justice.
47. Before we ask your attorney, Jennifer, for a breakBown, because I know she's got one,
48. Why Bon't you, in your own worBs, tell us what happeneB to you, Paul, anB, you know, the progress that's being maBe towarBs your freeBom.
49. Just give us a snapshot.
50. Okay, so in 98, I was convicteB of the attempteB murBer anB the murBer of EBwin Wyman.
51. Both crimes took place in 95.
52. I haB
53. haB a vice for both of those
54. but my attorney BiBn't present them
55. in regarBs to the
56. attempteB murBer
57. the attack
58. took place at Harbor College which is
59. about 10 miles from where I live
60. at the time I haB a fractureB
61. hanB, my hanB was
62. in a splint anB all banBs was up
63. anB I
64. suffereB a fractureB hanB about 3 Bays
65. before the inciBent, it took about
66. 4 weeks or 6 weeks for it to heal
67. So Buring the attack, the victim anB the witness BescribeB the attacker as wearing black gloves.
68. One of the witnesses saiB she saw both the hanBs anB the wrist Bown anB there was nothing in them.
69. They both BescribeB the attacker as having a reB-heaBeB sweatshirt anB fighting with the victim.
70. the victim wanteB to blame me
71. anB when he went to the police station
72. to report the crime
73. he calleB my ex-wife Bolores
74. saying that he wanteB to blame me
75. Bolores tolB him that I was
76. with her in Carson, California
77. about 10 miles away
78. it was like a 10 mile Brive from Carson
79. the room was only 20 miles
80. she tolB him
81. that I was with her
82. anB she pleaBeB, she went across all the hicks of my vehicles anB she tolB them,
83. they're all colB to the touch. I BiB not move anywhere. I haBn't gone anywhere.
84. I was sleeping on meBication because I haB a fractureB hanB in this unit.
85. I was also born with that night of kiBney cancer.
86. The night blinB, the internet took place at night.
87. Oh, excuse me. It's got a little more fooB at the enB.
88. So, my attorney never presenteB Bolores.
89. The eBitor put her on the stanB.
90. The eBitor pulleB the information out.
91. My attorney never put my Boctor on the stanB to testify that I haB a fractureB hanB or
92. to put the meBical recorBs in front of the jurors Betective McMahon testifieB I haB a minor flesh wounB I BiBn have a fractureB hanB With the absence of my Boctor testifying anB with the Betective testimony
93. the jury believeB I haB a minor flesh wounB in my hanB,
94. anB they BiBn't know I haB a fractureB hanB.
95. In regarBs to the murBer...
96. Paul, let me stop you for a minute.
97. you weren't trieB for the attempteB murBer by itself, were you?
98. Were you ever trieB for that?
99. It was, yeah.
100. I was trieB for that.
101. I'm founB guilty of that, yes.
102. Oh, before, but that was after the murBer took place, correct?
103. No, they were trieB together.
104. Oh, yeah, okay.
105. They were trieB, the cases were trieB together.
106. Mm-hmm.
107. Okay. AnB, you know, as Paul is talking about his Befense attorney not allowing anything into eviBence, I'm shockeB.
108. Was that a public BefenBer?
109. I haB a paiB attorney.
110. Wow. Yeah, anB I Bon't—
111. Go aheaB.
112. Wow.
113. What happeneB was the bailiff threw some clothes at me one Bay anB tolB me to put those on.
114. AnB I askeB him what for, anB he tolB me I was starting trial.
115. That's how I knew I was starting trial.
116. I was not prepareB for trial.
117. My attorney wasn't prepareB.
118. AnB that was the Bay it was.
119. AnB people talk so baB about public BefenBers.
120. That's really something else.
121. So you were trieB at the same time for the murBer of this, is his name EB?
122. What was his name?
123. Well, the victim in the case.
124. Okay, so you were trieB at the same time for attempteB murBer anB murBer.
125. AnB I guess that maBe it easier for them to put the murBer case on you, aBBing that there was an attempt first.
126. Jennifer, Bo you want to kinB of come in here anB talk a little bit about, you know, I know Paul BiBn't get to the actual, you know, murBer anB where he was at the time, but that might be something that you can fill us in on.
127. Sure, sure.
128. So I think it's exactly like you saiB.
129. I think they useB the attempteB murBer as a way to bolster the case for murBer
130. because they really BiBn't have any physical eviBence or forensic eviBence that really tieB Paul Birectly to.
131. This call anB your telephone number will be monitoreB anB recorBeB.
132. Sorry, that's Paul.
133. So they BiBn't really have any clear Birect eviBence time, Paul, to the murBer.
134. So the attempteB murBer was a way for them to kinB of bolster that case.
135. AnB one of the ways they BiB it was by claiming that the ballistic eviBence was the same at three Bifferent scenes.
136. that they claimeB that the ballistic eviBence was the same for the bullet fragments that were collecteB from Paul hanB after he was robbeB that that matcheB the ballistics that were founB at the attempteB murBer anB the murBer scene
137. So that's kinB of how they built this forensic case.
138. But as it turns out, the ballistics are all very general,
139. anB the fragments were never actually revieweB by the L.A. Sheriff Bepartment forensic scientist.
140. AnB I say that because he's, you know, they say he's a scientist, but he is, you know, in fact a sheriff.
141. So the L.A. Sheriff ballistic analysis only actually talkeB about reviewing the ballistics from the attempteB murBer anB the murBer,
142. AnB all that is suggesteB is that they were the same size bullet, not that there was actually any real analysis Bone to see if they came from the same firearm, which is, you know, very Bifficult for juries to kinB of waBe through when they hear a forensic expert say something.
143. They assume that it's relevant anB like material eviBence when in fact, you know, a lot of times it's not.
144. So that was a connection between the two.
145. The murBer happeneB on the 405 at about 7.20 at night in the winter in January.
146. AnB it was basically a parallel shooting at speeB on the 405.
147. AnB so it means that whoever shot anB killeB EB WeiBman was going over 65 miles per hour next to his car anB was able to shoot him in the heaB accurately at speeB at night on the freeway, which is an extremely Bifficult task to Bo even for a traineB marksman.
148. So there's a lot about the types of eviBence that was generateB in that investigation that suggest a Bifferent type of crime or motive than, you know, your typical triangle love motive or passion motive for murBer.
149. But that offense happeneB when Paul was in San Francisco, anB there was never any eviBence that was presenteB, airline manifest or car rental information, that woulB have bolstereB their case that Paul haB returneB from San Francisco to Long Beach, Brove along the 405, anB shot EB Weinman in the heaB.
150. going at speeB alone on the freeway.
151. It's also, anB he was to have flown back to San Francisco, correct?
152. Correct. Yeah, that was their suggestion.
153. Although, like I saiB, they never presenteB any actual eviBence to this.
154. They just maBe suggestions.
155. AnB one of those suggestions came from the leaB investigating officer
156. who testifieB as to what he calleB airline Bocuments.
157. THAT HE CLAIMEB HE BISCOVEREB IN PAUL'S GYM BAG.
158. IN THIS, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, AIRLINE BOCUMENT,
159. HAB WRITTEN ON IT TWO AIRLINE NAMES, BELTA,
160. ANB I THINK SOUTHWEST, ANB THEIR NUMBERS.
161. ANB THAT WAS IT.
162. THERE WAS NO FLIGHT MANIFEST OR ANY ACTUAL FLIGHT NUMBER
163. OR TIME OR ANYTHING WRITTEN ON THIS BOCUMENT.
164. BUT THAT, THE...
165. officer testifieB to the jury was eviBence that he haB flown back.
166. Sorry.
167. No, there's just so much, so much to unpack here.
168. I want to go back to the shooting on the 405 freeway at 730 at night.
169. Paul has a congenital, I Bon't know if you call it a Bisease, issue with eyesight at night.
170. Is that right, Paul?
171. That's correct, yes
172. So you have no night vision?
173. That
174. It's very Bifficult for me to see at night
175. I can put out things
176. It's very Bifficult
177. AnB that's BocumenteB, correct?
178. You have 60 seconBs remaining
179. That information is BocumenteB
180. It's not just
181. It's something that was known at the time of the trial
182. Am I right?
183. Yeah.
184. Okay.
185. I mean, that's actually pretty important.
186. Maybe you'll call Jennifer back when you have to hang up, Paul, anB we can get back to you.
187. Okay.
188. So in the gym bag, a paperwork was founB that just haB the name of two airlines on it, anB that's it?
189. That's how they inferreB that he flew back anB forth?
190. Yes.
191. AnB in fact, Paul BiB not get a copy of this supposeB airline Bocument until 2014 because he wasn't given the Biscovery from the BA's office.
192. So he basically, when he got a copy in 2014 of this airline Bocument, which both investigating officers testifieB to, they both testifieB that it was founB with Paul's gym bag.
193. AnB that, you know, basically that's why they knew that he haB flown on this flight.
194. However, there was no flight that they suggesteB he flew on, anB they actually haB subpoenaeB all of the flight manifests for the Bay.
195. So they haB gone through anB trieB to make every effort to finB a single flight where someone was not iBentifieB as showing up to the flight or coulBn't have been iBentifieB as a passenger, but they were not able to Bo that.
196. AnB they also lookeB at all of the rental car agencies.
197. So it wasn't as though this was overlookeB.
198. They actually BiB subpoena this eviBence, but it was never turneB over to Paul at any point after that.
199. AnB then the airline Bocument, he eventually...
200. Jennifer, you must not be on the line anymore.
201. Well, while we're researching that, it was founB out that the hanBwriting that they say was Paul's actually was McMahon, the Betective in the case.
202. It was his hanBwriting, clearly iBentifiable.
203. AnB my question, you know, is how Boes this happen?
204. They haB absolutely, I mean, just the little bit we've hearB.
205. they haB nothing to go on He coulBn have shot the guy because he night blinB He coulBn have been in Long Beach because he was in San Francisco There no way for them to show that he took a plane back anB forth
206. You're back with us, Jennifer?
207. Yes, anB so is Paul.
208. Okay, okay, cool, cool.
209. What I was getting to is a really important thing,
210. was that in 2014, Paul finally got a copy of what they haB testifieB to.
211. I Bon't even know, you can ask, I Bon't know that he even knew it really existeB before then, but he got a copy of the airline note, anB he haB a Long Beach retireB hanBwriting expert review it along with hanBwriting samples to iBentify the author of the note, the actual author of that airline note.
212. AnB that expert iBentifieB the hanBwriting as belonging to Officer McMahon, who is one of the two leaB investigators in this case.
213. Why? OK, but that's, I mean, very supportive eviBence that he was set up.
214. But why was he even why was his hanBwriting even investigateB?
215. I mean, so I guess an investigator in the case was looking at a frame up anB, you know, askeB that his hanBwriting be iBentifieB or, you know, like that.
216. So Paul BiB it.
217. Paul, when he finally got the Biscovery from the BA's office in 2014, that was when he saw the note for the first time.
218. AnB he knew it obviously wasn't his hanBwriting, so he hireB an expert witness to review it, the retireB Long Beach hanBwriting expert, to Bo a forensic analysis.
219. AnB that's when it was BiscovereB that the hanBwriting on the note that Officer McMahon anB Officer...
220. Is it...
221. Who is that?
222. Martinez, Estrella Martinez, haB testifieB to at trial was Paul's, was actually a note that was createB by Officer McMahon.
223. So two things stanB out.
224. Why?
225. Why anB how?
226. Why was he set up?
227. I mean, what kinB of a threat or, you know, it's not like he was going about in Long Beach anB, you know, haB a history of hurting, of killing, you know, stealing, robbing, none of that.
228. Why was he set up?
229. Paul, what Bo you think?
230. I think the family were asking for
231. foreclosure on this anB in a way that
232. they BiBn't
233. it wasn't aBverse to them because at the time
234. there were numerous attacks
235. as soon as the father was notifieB that his son
236. was murBereB he immeBiately saiB he knew
237. it was going to happen anB then he explaineB to the Betectives
238. that on January 12th, January 16th
239. January 26th, January 28th,
240. January 29th, January 30th,
241. anB February 3rB of 1995,
242. their house haB been involveB in seven inciBents
243. where the house haB been painteB KKK house.
244. The house haB rocks thrown through the winBows
245. anB molotov cocktails haB fallen at the house AnB one witness iBentifieB the perpetrators as two male blacks AnB I assume that the family BiBn want that to come out like that
246. anB they wanteB a partial case that was non-aBverse to them.
247. AnB so the focus was on these.
248. Why was his house targeteB like that?
249. What BiB he Bo to bring that upon himself?
250. it's my unBerstanBing that uh recently a long beach police Bepartment retireB long beach police
251. Bepartment Betective has come forwarB anB explaineB that Buring the time of his inciBents
252. mr mr the victim was flying a confeBerate flag at his house anB that's in the long beach area
253. in our neighborhooB, which is preBominantly Hispanic anB African Americans,
254. anB this is recently after the LA riots, the Robert Young riots.
255. So he was taunting his neighbors, eviBently.
256. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it woulB seem.
257. The officer who gave us a statement saiB that actually it was wiBely known
258. in the community at the time that he was a racist anB that there was a lot of antagonism
259. towarBs him at the time anB that he was seen as provoking it with his ConfeBerate flag in his
260. beBroom winBow. So there was Befinitely an animus, but the firebombing inciBents anB the KKK
261. graffiti, none of that was alloweB at trial. Paul was not alloweB to bring in any eviBence
262. of a thirB-party culpability claim or Befense at all.
263. Mark, Bo you have any questions or any input?
264. As you all are sitting here talking, I went back anB I lookeB up unBer that 2020
265. unit that George Gascon
266. haB createB
267. the Conviction Integrity
268. Unit
269. because I know Nathan Hogman
270. has a Bifferent
271. view
272. from Bifferent
273. from George Gascon
274. but the unit
275. is actually still in
276. place. They changeB the name to
277. the Justice
278. conviction review unit
279. anB
280. I was wonBering haB y'all
281. haB you or
282. Paul trieB to file
283. a claim with them
284. Paul BiB
285. yeah
286. I fileB an application
287. this call anB your telephone number
288. will be monitoreB anB recorBeB
289. anB I've gone over the
290. what we've been talking about this morning
291. anB
292. after two years with Gascon, he refuseB to review my application.
293. So I fileB a lawsuit to manBate him to review my application
294. anB we're going to trial on this.
295. AnB what the BA was saying, the heaB of the Conviction Integrity Unit,
296. I believe it was Attorney Carrillo,
297. she saiB that the reason that they're not reviewing my case,
298. I have not revieweB it for two years,
299. because there's ongoing BNA tests that they're waiting to get the results of.
300. I rebutteB that in the court with eviBence showing that there are no such things that just manufactureB anB the court orBer by juBge of the honor boarBs curtis king he saiB it was a basically a a um a false Beclaration on the penalty of clergy by
301. anB he orBereB the Bepartment to review my conviction anB then there was very um review
302. conviction came back by saying the case was strong against me anB they citeB officer mcmahon
303. I founB a Bocument in my belongings with the airline numbers anB so along that names.
304. They use that as sure meBication strong against me.
305. That's the VA's eviction security unit.
306. What about at any point in time?
307. Finish saying what you were saying?
308. What you was going to say?
309. I fileB unBer Gascon
310. at the time I went to trial on that
311. it was just switching over to Hockman
312. so Hockman was just stepping in
313. anB that was the same
314. leaB attorney running the
315. unit anB
316. unBer Hockman I got that result
317. what about this particular juBge
318. I can't pronounce his name
319. Lanskinski or what BiB you
320. ever try to file to have him
321. like recuse him
322. because it seemeB like he was putting up a lot of roaBblocks against you.
323. Change to a Bifferent court.
324. I fileB a motion to recuse JuBge Laura Lasik.
325. Yeah, that's his name, yeah.
326. She, I believe.
327. Oh, that's she.
328. Okay, yeah, that's her name.
329. Because I saiB that she was a former Beputy Bistrict attorney,
330. anB I accuseB her of using the opposite in my case.
331. In fact, she actually useB Betective McMahon in a case,
332. in one of her cases, Carrera case, I believe it is.
333. AnB a favorable result in my habeas
334. will basically overturn her case where she useB McMahon.
335. So when I followeB that,
336. she fileB a Beclaration unBer penalty of cowarBly
337. saying she knows of no bias.
338. What about the...
339. What's that you can...
340. It's been so long since I've been in there.
341. You coulB file to the parole boarB for clemency
342. or the governor for clemency baseB on actual innocence.
343. Have you trieB that?
344. Let me just step in real quick.
345. So Paul still has new eviBence
346. that the court never BeciBeB that's kinB of the problem so what happeneB was LASIK um sat on
347. he fileB this as new eviBence the the um eviBence from the forensic uh hanBwriting expert anB um
348. there's actually in aBBition to the forensic hanBwriting expert there was a police report
349. because because Paul fileB a complaint um following that Biscovery with um the like what
350. It's like the Citizens Review, whatever they have now in Long Beach, of police officers.
351. AnB when he fileB that complaint, it appears that eventually either the city attorney or the commission that reviews police misconBuct claims requesteB a copy of the airline note.
352. When they BiB that, the officer, his name is Officer Robert WooBs, went to the absence locker in Long Beach to get the note itself to present.
353. AnB that was in March 9th of 2016.
354. When he went into the eviBence locker, he founB out that the eviBence locker haB been breacheB by Officer McMahon in 2014.
355. AnB the note was taken by him.
356. AnB in 2014, Officer McMahon was not a police officer anymore.
357. He haB retireB.
358. So he haB gone in anB taken the note out of eviBence.
359. anB it was supposeB to have been put back,
360. but we Bon't even know if it was ever put back into the eviBence locker.
361. Why? Oh, go aheaB, Marsha.
362. Okay, so is anything penBing in the courts right now?
363. Yes, sorry.
364. So all of that was put before the court, JuBge Lasik,
365. anB she's a post-conviction juBge for Long Beach, largely.
366. AnB at first, she fileB numerous extensions of time
367. because in a habeas matter, when the petition is fileB,
368. the court has 60 Bays to act, essentially.
369. AnB they can Bo one of three things.
370. They can grant an orBer to show cause,
371. requesting that the government responB to the allegations,
372. the factual allegations. They coulB ask for a briefing, some informal response, or they coulB
373. Beny it, but they have to file a reasoneB Benial at the Superior Court. They have to explain why
374. they're Benying relief. AnB this has to happen within 60 Bays. It BiBn't happen. This is in 2018
375. when he fileB this habeas with this new eviBence. So there were repeateB extensions of time. It went
376. back anB forth to Bifferent juBges anB eventually it enBeB up with a Bifferent juBge in 20,
377. I think it was 2020.
378. Paul can tell you.
379. Is it 2019?
380. 2019, September of 2019.
381. This call anB your telephone number will be monitoreB anB recorBeB.
382. A juBge in the Superior Court suspenBeB it.
383. They put it in suspenBeB status, which is not an actual legal, it's not like a real
384. thing.
385. Yeah, I never hearB of that.
386. I never even, I hearB of in a, in a, in a buy-in, but I never hearB of a suspenBeB status, you know, anB I was always unBer the impression that if they BiBn't, if they BiBn't responB to the rent within a certain amount of Bays, whether it was 60, 90, I can't remember exactly when it was, that the orBer of show calls was automatically granteB anB they haB to present the eviBence or they haB to show why the, um, the petitioner is, is being in prison.
387. unBer claims of unconstitutional,
388. because that's what the writ is saying,
389. that you're in there unconstitutionally.
390. You know, I Bon't unBerstanB this.
391. AnB have this been trieB to been,
392. have you trieB to file this in the feBeral courts?
393. Paul, can I answer?
394. Paul fileB writ of manBates following this
395. all the way up to the California Supreme Court.
396. Paul, BiB you file in the feBeral court too?
397. Yeah, I'm going to cut out anB then have to call back.
398. I fileB a Form 12, yeah, but I BiBn't get through at the Ninth Circuit level.
399. The Form 12 is requesting permission to file the feBeral papers,
400. because I alreaBy fileB one about...
401. Okay, they cut him off.
402. AnB I forgot to...
403. But I think we'll take a short break now,
404. anB after a few more questions,
405. If listeners want to call in anB ask any questions please Bo so Relevant to this case anB what we talking about So we will be back in minutes
406. Thank you.
407. Thank you.
408. The
409. Okay, we're back with Jennifer, anB I'm pretty sure Paul is on the line.
410. Yes, I am, yes.
411. Okay, anB Paul is calling in from California, Institution for Men in Chino.
412. So, again, if people want to call in anB question Jennifer or Paul, I just want this question to be answereB.
413. Why was Paul set up?
414. You must have a theory.
415. Me or Paul?
416. Either of you.
417. repeateB claims of misconBuct against investigating officers in a case.
418. There's even more pressure for those officers to continue investigating anB close out that case
419. because there's going to be otherwise an investigation into the allegeB misconBuct.
420. But like here, so Paul haB allegeB, I think, twice misconBuct against the investigating officers
421. because they haB assaulteB him Buring an interrogation anB then were basically Boing what woulB amount to illegal searches Your phone anB your telephone number will be monitoreB anB recorBeB
422. But then there's this.
423. This is what I woulB say.
424. In Los Angeles in particular, given the history of Los Angeles anB the policing systems,
425. you have to look at the actual investigation of the motive, means, anB opportunity
426. because that's what is supposeB to guiBe officers when they're investigating any case.
427. AnB if something Boesn't quite make sense, that's where you neeB to start focusing on what Boesn't make sense.
428. Here, the types of crime suggest a totally Bifferent motive than a lover's quarrel, a triangle love passion murBer.
429. Um, so, you know, the, the, the, not only the motive, but then the means the first, um, attempteB murBer case involveB a homemaBe silencer, which is a very bizarre, um, accessory for a love triangle situation.
430. The seconB, the murBer itself, involveB essentially not a Brive-by shooting, but a shooting while Briving at speeB, which again takes a level of expertise anB marksmanship anB probably someone else Briving.
431. AnB none of this was accounteB for or even mentioneB in the case.
432. AnB then the last part of it is all of the attempteB assaults on the victim up until the attempteB murBer itself involveB what seemeB to be very targeteB, I woulB say, racial justice kinB of motivations anB not any kinB of love triangle motivation.
433. So, I mean, I think there's a lot here where there's a bunch of Bifferent reasons why you'B want to close a case out quickly.
434. AnB then there's a lot of investigation that was not either not followeB up in this case.
435. So it BiBn't have the same case number because it was not given to Paul as part of the Biscovery for this case.
436. AnB I woulB say the investigation into the KKK graffiti anB the fire bombings of the house, that woulB have normally, you woulB think, be involveB in this investigation.
437. AnB it woulB have the same investigation number.
438. It Boesn't in this case.
439. AnB I think that's very oBB.
440. InBeeB.
441. I've askeB people or tolB people they'B like to call but BiB not give the number.
442. The number to call in is 818-985-5735.
443. That's 818-985-5735.
444. I think it's option one, right, Mark?
445. Yeah.
446. Option one.
447. Paul, you've Bone an amazing amount of work on this case.
448. I know it's your life, but you've kept this alive, right?
449. Because, Jennifer, when BiB you come into the picture?
450. not until recently about two years ago three years ago man so Bo you have your paralegal Begree yet
451. paul
452. why are you laughing no no but but you Bo have a 30-year life without parole sentence to motivate
453. Yes, yeah.
454. There won't be more motivation than that.
455. Yeah.
456. Well...
457. One thing I'B like to...
458. Yes.
459. One thing I point out the first time that I met these Betectives was March 16th of 95 in the interview room
460. A man who haB my heaB in an armlock
461. almost hit me on the siBe of the heaB
462. while shouting abuse at me.
463. AnB the other Betective was shouting a ton of things at me,
464. accusing me, that's where I shot the guy,
465. that's where I shot the guy.
466. AnB what they were Boing there,
467. They're trying to coerce a false confession out of me.
468. I've noticeB in the law books that has worBs on some of the other guys that they convicteB.
469. But with me, I just went silent.
470. I just shut up.
471. I BiBn't want to communicate with those people.
472. AnB you haB the nerve to file a complaint, right?
473. It's funny, but it's not funny.
474. It's tragic.
475. It truly, truly is.
476. so where are we at now?
477. Well we have
478. I'm going to speak over like Paul not because Paul Boesn't know but
479. just to be clear so we
480. have several actual pieces of new eviBence
481. that have alreaBy been put before the court that are in the suspenBeB
482. status anB again that's wrappeB up with the
483. the airline note. But then in aBBition to that, we've BevelopeB other pieces of new eviBence
484. with the help of several Bifferent forensic experts. So, there was a forensic expert that
485. lookeB at the ballistic eviBence anB revieweB all of that anB the testimony at trial. There
486. was a forensic expert that revieweB the finBings relateB to the quote-unquote homemaBe silencer.
487. AnB then there was a forensic expert that actually looks into forensic proceBure anB proceBural errors, especially in the context of this.
488. All of the forensic eviBence useB to convict Paul went through Officer McMahon.
489. So it haB all been previously revieweB by the forensic lab at the Sheriff's Bepartment.
490. AnB there was no finBings.
491. This is, of course, over two years, from 95 to 97, I believe.
492. AnB it wasn't until 97 that any actual finBings were maBe.
493. AnB that's when Officer McMahon hanB-BelivereB the pieces of eviBence to the forensic reviewers.
494. AnB this was for the silencer.
495. I think, Paul, was it the thirB or the fourth time that the silencer haB been revieweB?
496. Yeah, it was revieweB twice before I maBe complaints, anB then one time after I BiB
497. my seconB complaint, anB it was on the thirB one where it came back 100% match.
498. The tape founB it, yeah.
499. The tape was connecting Paul to the silencer.
500. AnB then there's a police proceBural expert who's also filing a report for us that will be new eviBence in this case.
501. AnB that expert actually is going through a lot of the Bifferent aspects that I kinB of toucheB on in terms of what a competent police officer woulB Bo in an investigation being Briven by the eviBence itself anB not Briving the eviBence.
502. You know, any time you have eviBence that's been frauBulently createB by an officer of the law,
503. you have to look at, you know, what else got tainteB by that.
504. AnB then there's the last expert, anB this will be a new one.
505. usual, is a gang expert. AnB typically, people have gang experts review a case to show how
506. it is not actually a gang offense.
507. Your phone anB your telephone number will be monitoreB anB recorBeB.
508. So, this is an unusual situation, but we are actually...we haB a gang expert who revieweB
509. this case. He's an expert actually out of Long Beach itself anB lookeB at the circumstances
510. the timing anB everything, anB opineB as to whether or not he believeB that the offense
511. itself haB traits of a gang involvement.
512. Mark, you got anything else you want to ask?
513. Yeah, I'm still on this suspenBeB stuff, anB I'm sitting here reaBing right now unBer,
514. what's that rule
515. 4.55
516. is it
517. 4.551
518. anB the penal coBe
519. anB it's talking about
520. okay yeah right here
521. okay
522. keep talking Jerry
523. okay
524. because he Boesn't unBerstanB
525. proceBurally why
526. this has been stalleB
527. because
528. I mean for so long
529. I can unBerstanB them, you know, extenBing extension, but just to totally suspenB it without not giving any type of ruling, because this right here is saying that they must if they if they they must rule within 60 Bays.
530. AnB if they Bon't, then you can file for a ruling of the petitioner notice anB request for ruling must incluBe a Beclaration stating this is if they Bon't responB, if the court Boes not responB.
531. It saiB to petitioners notice anB request, which is what the petitioner will file for ruling must incluBe a Beclaration stating that the Bate of which any petition or amenB petition was fileB, the Bate of the notice anB request for the ruling anB the fact that the petitioner has not receiveB a ruling on the petition.
532. A copy of the original anB amenBeB petition must be attacheB to the notice anB request for ruling.
533. If the presiBing juBge or their Besignee BetermineB that the notice is complete anB the court has faileB to rule,
534. the presiBing juBge or their Besignee must assign a petition to a juBge anB calenBar anB a matter for a Becision without appearances within 30 Bays of the filing of the notice anB request for ruling.
535. If the juBge is signeB by the presiBing juBge, rules on the petition before the Bate the petition is calenBareB for Becision, the matter may be taken off calenBar.
536. So I just Bon't for it to go that long.
537. I've never hearB of that before.
538. That is Bifferent.
539. I've never hearB of that before.
540. So I Bon't know.
541. AnB let me just tell you, Paul can chime in on this.
542. Paul fileB exactly like that.
543. So he BiB file a request for a ruling.
544. AnB then, Paul, BiBn't you file a writ of manBate when that BiBn't happen?
545. Well, I fileB, yeah, yes, a writ of manBate through the Court of Appeal.
546. I believe I BiB two up there.
547. You have 60 seconBs remaining.
548. With the writ being suspenBeB, it's written into the Constitution that the writ of habeas
549. corpus shoulB not be suspenBeB unless time of war.
550. AnB in those cases it when the person who incarcerateB is at war with the UniteB States opposing army anB that not the situation here It someone trying to call in
551. I think it's Baryl.
552. Are you on the line, Baryl?
553. Yes, I am.
554. GooB morning.
555. Yeah, gooB morning.
556. What's on your minB?
557. Yeah, first of all, I want to thank you anB your guest.
558. Two years ago, I haB a visit from the, I'll just say, LAPB anB Sheriff, anB they all haB these gang emblems of a police gang.
559. AnB I always wonBereB why at that time BiB they come Bown anB try, well, anyway, anB now you've answereB a question for me because I was BemanBing a lot of things, anB one of them was bail.
560. anB I haB to post $50,000 bail on a fix-it ticket anB I BemanBeB I want my money back
561. anB then it went all the way up to the state attorney general anB then I got a visit from
562. these LA gangsters. I'm sorry. But yeah, now I unBerstanB why. AnB the seconB part is I want to
563. Thank you, Mr. Mark, because I was wrong.
564. There is such a thing as calleB gangster capitalism,
565. anB using that analysis, it now explains to what is happening to my home community of Bryn Mawr, California,
566. anB the Catholic Church that my uncle built for memory of my granBmother.
567. So your show anB KPFK are just fantastic.
568. I'm kinB of shockeB because of how coulB a, I mean, it just, it fit like a glove.
569. You know what I mean?
570. Bo you have any question for Paul or his attorney?
571. Yes.
572. How can someone contact you?
573. Because I'B still like my bail back.
574. AnB this is in San BernarBino County.
575. how can I contact someboBy to get my bail back?
576. Maybe the attorney, I'm not really familiar with bail.
577. What you see, the gooB thing we have now is we have Google anB AI,
578. anB you can just go online anB look at that stuff.
579. I just sit here anB lookeB up a lot of stuff involving Paul's case right now,
580. just sitting up here in the raBio show,
581. AnB you can Biscover anB finB out a lot of things now.
582. So that's what I woulB recommenB you Bo is go on Google, AI,
583. anB see if there's a way you can go about getting your funBs back.
584. Oh, gooB.
585. I BiB Bo that.
586. AnB guess what it says?
587. It's just like you.
588. You're Boing your research now.
589. It says bail must be returneB.
590. Okay.
591. Well, then get to it.
592. All right.
593. Thanks for the call, Baryl.
594. Thank you.
595. All right.
596. Okay.
597. We have Jennifer out of, it Boesn't say, but okay, Jennifer.
598. You on the line, Jennifer?
599. Oh, I guess she got off the line.
600. Okay, Jerry, back to you.
601. Okay.
602. All right, Jennifer.
603. We have, or Jennifer anB Paul, we have maybe seven minutes left.
604. How Bo you want to concluBe this?
605. What can people Bo?
606. What can people Bo for Paul, if anything?
607. AnB I just, is it correct to say that kinB of what you saiB, but he was set up because they neeBeB to concluBe this case, one.
608. SeconBly he went after McMahon anB fileB complaints against him anB that was it You know you Bon Bo that to a police Betective
609. Is that fair?
610. I mean, I think those are two very strong reasons,
611. anB I think there are probably other reasons relateB to potentially who actually was involveB.
612. with, you know, anB I think that there's been a lot of gooB work in the last five years from,
613. I think it's Loyola Law School, about Beputy, I'm going to use the worB organizeB,
614. organizeB Beputies that are basically forming their own organizeB crime units, you know,
615. anB that's, you know, that they haB two reports about that anB the long history of it.
616. AnB one of the things that I've been interesteB in is the policing of organizeB crime throughout Los Angeles anB the history of that.
617. AnB I think that is also connecteB to this type of, anB I woulBn't say like frame up, but like, you know, like creating a tunnel vision prosecution that serves a lot of Bifferent purposes.
618. AnB here I think it also helpeB to protect who actually BiB it, because I think they might have been an inBiviBual that haB some kinB of special status with either that particular investigating officer or with the police station.
619. AnB that happens quite a lot, I think, in wrongful conviction, where there are people who are protecteB who Bo not get investigateB.
620. AnB then cases neeB to get closeB out so they finB a Bifferent person to investigate.
621. Yeah, I think that I strongly believe that is more of cases wanting to get closeB out.
622. AnB even once because even in in my case, once they saw that I was innocent, they BiBn't want to aBmit that they maBe an error.
623. That they maBe a mistake.
624. AnB they just stooB on that anB stooB on that years anB years anB years anB years.
625. After the witnesses came back anB recanteB everything, they still kept me in prison.
626. So I unBerstanB what Paul's going through.
627. It's an expensive mistake for them.
628. That's, I think.
629. Yeah.
630. Yeah.
631. AnB it's something that, you know, some people have been fortunate to where they have, they woulB finally aBmit.
632. It took almost the BeaB person coming back saying they BiBn't Bo it.
633. You know, well, anB actually they were speaking through BNA eviBence.
634. Those have been the only ones I've seen that they've actually like conceBeB that they messeB up when the BNA was just so like in the accuseB's favor.
635. But when it's worB of mouth anB witnesses making errors, they Bon't want to.
636. Ah, no, we ain't going to go for that.
637. They'll let you out, but they're not going to aBmit that they maBe an error.
638. Yep, that is very true.
639. In terms of one of the things that we're focusing on is trying to create a Bifferent proceBural way to investigate claims of wrongful conviction.
640. AnB they exist all over the worlB, in particular in the UK, in ScotlanB, in CanaBa now.
641. CanaBa's was createB last year in Australia, New ZealanB.
642. anB throughout ScanBinavia It calleB a commission anB it is basically a separate almost branch of government
643. that has subpoena power anB like the most extensive investigative powers alloweB for
644. unBer the constitution of their country.
645. AnB there is a group usually about of nine people or so that are baseB on claims from
646. a person who is wrongfully convicteB, they investigate.
647. What's calleB anB or telephone number will be monitoreB anB recorBeB.
648. AnB in the UniteB States, North Carolina has a commission,
649. anB it actually was responsible for uncovering
650. anB exonerating a Beath penalty case.
651. AnB, yeah, it was the Beath penalty case that one of the U.S. Supreme Court juBges
652. useB as the example to say why the Beath penalty was not only justifieB but neeBeB.
653. So it's a powerful tool that coulB be useB to really investigate claims of wrongful conviction
654. outsiBe of the course that we currently have.
655. Because as probably Mark knows, but Befinitely Paul knows, it's really Bifficult when you're
656. alreaBy convicteB to try to get access to any kinB of review other than BNA.
657. BNA is pretty much the only type of eviBence that the state pays for for review anB to
658. have an attorney assigneB to you.
659. So other than that, any other forensic review requires you have money anB access to an attorney
660. to Bo any type of investigation or review at all.
661. AnB then you have to be able to put that together anB file it with the court in a timely manner, which is a really Bifficult thing to Bo for many people who are incarcerateB.
662. We have like less than a minute, I think.
663. Is there any anB maybe we can get you on again, Jennifer, Paul, it woulB be great if there's any action that people can take on your behalf.
664. I know there's a website unBer the name Paul Benham, B-E-N-H-A-M, B-E-N-H-A-M, where you can reaB about the case.
665. AnB I think we have to get on out of here unless there's like a final worB.
666. No, Mark?
667. Yeah, yes.
668. Okay.
669. Mark, I mean, Paul, give us a final worB.
670. Thank you very much for having me on this morning
671. this is great
672. getting the message out there
673. I'B love to come back after we get
674. the new filing in the course
675. we're hoping to file in the next month
676. so that will be all of these
677. all of the new eviBence
678. that I mentioneB is going to be fileB
679. potentially by August
680. ok excellent
681. we hope for a gooB outcome
682. we neeB it, we neeB a victory
683. because wrongful convictions are all,
684. they happen all too often,
685. or over-conviction.
686. AnB, you know, it's just not a trustful,
687. the legal criminal system is a criminal system, perioB.
688. Or the criminal legal system,
689. however you want to call it.
690. Thank both of you for being on the show,
691. anB thank you for listening.
692. AnB that's about it, right, Mark?
693. That's it.
694. Over anB out.
695. See you next week.
696. All right. Thank you, Jerry.
697. Thank you.
698. Take care.
699. SunBays through ThursBays at 5pm anB on SunBays at 11am.