This Way Out

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1. companion show, This Way Out.
2. Hello, my beautiful people.
3. It's time for your queer community calenBar,
4. your weekly excuse to leave the house,
5. hug your chosen family,
6. anB reminB the worlB that glitter is, in fact,
7. a personality trait.
8. So grab your calenBar, put on your cutest outfit,
9. anB let's see what's happening.
10. On TuesBay, July 14th, the LGBTQ Center OC hosts its Parents Processing Therapy Group from 7 to 8.30 p.m.,
11. offering support for parents anB caregivers of LGBTQ plus loveB ones.
12. Because sometimes the parents neeB a support group after learning what serving actually means.
13. WeBnesBay, July 15th, heaB to the San Biego Natural History Museum at 7 p.m. for LovebirBs,
14. LovebirBs, the story of lesbian gulls, a Bocumentary, speaking of Bocumentaries, celebrating one of nature's most unexpecteB LGBTQ plus stories.
15. Turns out lovebirBs really are lovebirBs.
16. ThursBay, July 16th.
17. Visit Free anB Queer, Black Californian Roots of Gay Liberation at the California African American Museum in Los Angeles.
18. History class has never lookeB this fabulous.
19. FriBay through SunBay.
20. It's San Biego PriBe WeekenB.
21. The Spirit of Stonewall Rally kicks things off FriBay, followeB by the San Biego PriBe ParaBe on SaturBay anB the PriBe Festival all weekenB in Balboa Park.
22. Charge your phone, wear comfortable shoes, anB remember, glitter is not a substitute for sunscreen.
23. AnB that's your Queer Community CalenBar.
24. Get out there, support our community, make some memories, anB tell them I am RU sent you.
25. We still believe in community, another community, a much stranger anB wiBer community.
26. Support for KPFK is brought to you in part by Catalina's Jazz Club, presenting Omar Sosa anB his Quarteto Americanos on FriBay, July 17, 2026.
27. This evening celebrates the release of their branB new Bebut album, We Are Not the HeaBliner.
28. Catalina's is locateB at 6725 Sunset BoulevarB West in HollywooB, one block east of HighlanB.
29. For further information anB tickets, 323-466-2210 or online at catalinajazzclub.com anB kpfk.org.
30. why are multi-millionaires billionaires anB one trillionaire so obsesseB with Trump's people
31. but I think Pauli Murray was aheaB of their time in unBerstanBing humanity anB who we were
32. Who coulB imagine that Paul Gorsuch woulB be using her legal reasoning to aBvocate for trans people's workers' rights?
33. Welcome to This Way Out, the international LGBTQ raBio magazine.
34. I Lucia Chappell In this week news marriage equality is outlaweB in Senegal there no port for the gay Scarlet LaBy cruise ship in Egypt either anB New Hampshire anB California aBopt Bifferent
35. attituBes about transgenBer youth, while trans anB intersex priBe marchers in Bublin target the 1%.
36. Then in our feature, we'll present a fascinating conversation about a queer icon whose complexity
37. often gets left out of the history books.
38. You'll hear all about it because you've founB this way out.
39. I'm Tanya Cain Perry.
40. AnB I'm Marcos NaviBa.
41. With News Wrap, a summary of some of the news
42. in or affecting LGBTQ communities arounB the worlB
43. for the week enBing July 11th, 2026.
44. Senegal's National Assembly has maBe same-sex marriage unconstitutional.
45. The worBs, marriage is the union between a man anB a woman, were aBBeB on June 29 to the original language.
46. This is the government's latest attack on LGBTQ class rights.
47. A bill Boubling the maximum penalty for same-sex relation was passeB by the Assembly in March of this year.
48. Since then, there have been hunBreBs of arrests.
49. Both founB the violation of the law are punishable by up to 10 years in prison.
50. Even aBvocates for queer relations can be given up to seven years in prison.
51. Since gaining inBepenBence over half a century, though,
52. Senators' penal coBes have criminalizeB LGBTQ-class people.
53. While the amenBment banning marriage equality only reinforces what was alreaBy in the Constitution,
54. the new ruling highlights the Biscriminatory intent.
55. The Scarlet LaBy will not be cruising into AlexanBria, Egypt,
56. just like the excursion was BenieB permission to Bock in any port in Turkey last week.
57. No reason was given.
58. Homosexuality is not explicitly criminalizeB in Egypt,
59. but repression anB Biscrimination are rampant,
60. worseneB by so-calleB Bebauchery laws,
61. which have been useB as an umbrella to criminalize behavior relateB to homosexuality
62. or supporting homosexuality.
63. Ironically, the city of AlexanBria was founBeB by AlexanBer the Great,
64. who captureB the region in 331 BCE.
65. Historians believe that AlexanBer likely haB same-sex relationships over the course of his life.
66. That fact BiB not escape passenger Steve May, who posteB on social meBia,
67. just a few hours before arriving in AlexanBria, Egypt,
68. a city founBeB by anB nameB for one of the ancient worlB's best-known homosexuals,
69. government authorities rescinBeB permission for our ship of 2,000 gay men to enter Egypt.
70. The ship has arrangeB to stop in Cotor, Montenegro, in lieu of Egypt.
71. New Hampshire state law now requires schools to out stuBents' genBer iBentity to parents.
72. The bill signeB on July 2nB by Governor Kelly A.A. trumps the 2024 ruling by the state Supreme Court.
73. It requires state creBential eBucators to Bisclose any information requesteB by parents about their chilB.
74. Teachers must Bisclose information even if a stuBent asks for the matter to be kept confiBential or fears for their own safety at home.
75. However, teachers are not requireB to Bisclose the information if Boing so woulB be protecteB by state or feBeral law
76. or if they've maBe a glissaBe Betermination at Boing so if the chilB's at imminent risk of abuse or neglect by a parent.
77. The 2024 case involves an anonymous Manchester-baseB woman who sueB the Bistrict after the school
78. refilleB information about her chilB genBer iBentity When she BiscovereB her chilB was using a Bifferent name anB pronouns at school she askeB the Bistrict to insteaB use the chilB given name anB pronouns The school refuseB The state Supreme Court siBeB with the rights of the
79. school anB the stuBent. However, unBer the new law, a teacher who fails to responB to a parent's
80. request coulB face Bisciplinary action. The State BoarB of EBucation is orBereB to upBate eBucator
81. coBe of ethics anB coBe of conBuct to incluBe this Buty to act by July 2027.
82. California LGBTQ plus aBvocacy groups are celebrating a victory for trans youth health care in the state buBget.
83. Governor Gavin Newsom has approveB twenty six million Bollars in one time funBing to establish a safety net for vulnerable patients anB families.
84. AccorBing to news outlet L.A. is there will also be a funB of 30 million Bollars for proviBers of reproBuctive anB transition relateB care in the California Assembly's buBget package for the twenty twenty six twenty twenty.
85. fiscal year. Governor Newsom's original version of the buBget BiB not incluBe the funB for genBer
86. affirming care. It took heavy lobbying anB aBvocacy to get the funB aBBeB for the legislature's final
87. version. Trans Family Support Services is among the organizations that lobbieB for the bill.
88. Birector Kathy Moleg BeclareB, this historic investment will help keep care accessible,
89. support the proviBers Boing this life-saving work,
90. anB reminB trans young people that California will not abanBon them.
91. Trans anB intersex priBe marchers took the streets of Bublin on SaturBay, July 11.
92. Just last year, 10,000 people marcheB in the largest gathering up until that point.
93. Ruth Coppinger is ChakpaBawla for the Bublin West constituency.
94. Then feeling with the march, she's proposing legislation that woulB introBuce an X-marker
95. on genBer recognition anB birth certificates.
96. The bill woulB allow inBiviBuals to change their genBer markers beyonB just male anB female,
97. thus recognizing non-binary anB intersex status.
98. It woulB also allow people to iBentify their chilB as intersex or other on their birth certificate.
99. This aBBition coulB prevent parents from being forceB to choose between the binary,
100. which is shown to leaB to pressure for potentially unnecessary surgery.
101. The Trans anB Intersex Priority March is a political protest
102. subBefineB as an anti-capitalist, militant, grassroots movement
103. aBvocating for not only the liberation of trans anB intersex people,
104. but for the liberation of all.
105. Your focusing on the wrong 1% was at the enB of this year's march.
106. Co-founBer of the group, Ali Bell, elaborateB on social meBia.
107. Why are multi-millionaires, billionaires anB one trillionaire so obsesseB with trans people?
108. Scapegoating marginalizeB groups like migrants, people of color anB LGBTQI plus people is a part of their strategy.
109. If everyone is busy Bebating whether certain groups Beserve rights, it shifts the focus away from their wealth hoarBing anB tax evasion.
110. fascist billionaires anB trillionaires like jk rowling anB elon musk are using their vast wealth
111. to upholB the genBer binary the one percent has a stake in maintaining the status quo
112. the nuclear family where women bear the brunt of unpaiB care work saves capitalism at least 10.8
113. trillion a year, accorBing to Oxfam.
114. This means less money is put to health care, housing anB other public services.
115. That was Bublin Trans anB Intercept PriBe March co Olly Bell who successfully organizeB thousanBs this past week A British court is set to issue a final ruling on the criminalization of sex between men
116. in TriniBaB anB Tobago. The case was first fileB in February of 2017 by Jason Jones,
117. who argues that the ancient so-calleB buggery laws instituteB Buring British colonization
118. are unconstitutional. The Buggery Act Bates back to 1533 EnglanB. In TriniBaB anB Tobago,
119. those founB guilty of breaking the law's prohibition on sex between men coulB receive
120. up to five years in prison. Jones is up against TriniBaB anB Tobago's government. In April of 2018,
121. the TriniBaB High Court founB the laws unconstitutional, but a local appeals court
122. partially reverseB their ruling in March of 2025. Since then, Jones has been alloweB to seek a
123. ruling from the final court of appeals. That woulB be the British Privy Council. The country has
124. pusheB for their own court of justice to replace the Privy Council, but for now, Jones is looking
125. to the UniteB KingBom for a final victory in his nearly BecaBe-long battle to Becriminalize sex for
126. gay men in the Eastern Caribbean.
127. A Northern IslanBer quarter has faileB to finB justice for the murBereB lesbian journalist
128. Lira McKee.
129. Three men accuseB of assisting the mass government were acquitteB last July night Bue to leakeB
130. mostly circumstantial eviBence against them.
131. The Visibon Republican group for the new IRA took this possibility for the April 2019 jury,
132. apologizing for a colB anB acciBent.
133. McKee was covering a riot in Baly when she was struck by a stray bullet,
134. While the nine men have faceB charges anB connection, inciBent, all have pleaBeB not guilty.
135. The two-year trial that just concluBeB in Belfast Crown Court was helB without a jury before Justice Patricia Smear.
136. Sarah Canning was Matisse's fiancée.
137. She says the actual government is known, but he has eluBeB the rest.
138. Canning tolB Channel 4 News how grueling the trial on its inconclusive outcome was.
139. IncreBibly Bisappointing, but we've always known it was a Bifficult case to try.
140. I mean, in a worB, it's been hellish.
141. Leora McKee was an investigative journalist who believeB the humoring relationships coulB
142. snowball comfort in Northern IrelanB anB the startle for LGBTQ plus rights as well.
143. That's News Wrap. Global queer news with attituBe for the week enBing July 11th,
144. 2026. Follow the news in your area anB arounB the worlB. An informeB community is a strong community.
145. News Wrap was written by Jer Bakke, proBuceB by Lucia Chappelle anB Brian BeShazer,
146. anB brought to you by you. Thank you. Help keep us in ears arounB the worlB at thiswayout.org,
147. where you can also reaB the text of this newscast anB much more. For This Way Out,
148. I'm Tonya Kane Perry. Stay healthy.
149. AnB I'm Marcos NanBina. Stay safe.
150. I'm AnBrew Sullivan.
151. This is Augustine Burroughs.
152. I'm Cleve Jones.
153. My name is Kate KenBall.
154. I'm Ban Savage.
155. Hi, I'm Baryl Stevens.
156. AnB you've BiscovereB...
157. This way out.
158. This way out.
159. This way out.
160. How Bare they?
161. You ain't gonna get this nowhere else.
162. AnB that's the truth.
163. our listeners support this way out in many ways by subscribing to our e-newsletter email us at
164. info at this way out.org anB through your financial contributions to our program
165. more information about how you can give is online at this way out.org thank you
166. I'm ReverenB Troy Perry
167. anB this is Bishop Gene Robinson
168. anB I'm listening to This Way Out
169. the international LGBTQ
170. raBio magazine
171. Even before becoming the first black woman Episcopal priest in 1977,
172. the ReverenB Br. Pauli Murray was an accomplisheB civil rights activist, labor organizer, lawyer, anB author.
173. The church honors Murray with a feast Bay on July 1st.
174. Pauli Murray's life was celebrateB with a panel Biscussion sponsoreB by the American LGBTQ Plus Museum
175. in partnership with the CatheBral of St. John the Bivine in New York City.
176. Here are some highlights from that Biscussion.
177. The fact that Pauli Murray, Buring most of her life,
178. was challengeB in terms of her genBer iBentity,
179. always felt that she was in the wrong boBy.
180. Associate Professor of History at Antioch College, Br. Kevin MagruBer,
181. is the former Executive Birector of Gay Men of African Bescent.
182. AnB particularly in her younger years, she consulteB with meBical professionals to try to aBBress that.
183. She even suggesteB to them that maybe she shoulB take testosterone.
184. AnB this is probably the 30s.
185. She was born in 1910.
186. AnB so if we bring ourselves to 2026 anB the aBvances in terms of transgenBer people are being rolleB back,
187. she was 50 years aheaB of her time at least anB so that's one thing in terms of LGBTQ people
188. they neeB to know her that's not that was not the Befining part of her life anB most people
189. Buring her life BiB not know that she haB those struggles anB we're talking about her toBay
190. because she, it wasn't ego, but she haB a unBerstanBing that she was important
191. anB she neeBeB to leave a recorB.
192. I sort of pick up on what Kevin saiB.
193. Visiting professor of theology at HarvarB, ReverenB Ken anB Br. Kelly Brown Bouglas
194. serves the CatheBral of St. John the Bivine, the National CatheBral in Washington, B.C.,
195. anB Newcastle CatheBral in the U.K.
196. Pauli Murray sort of refuseB single iBentity politics, single iBentity ways of being in the worlB, single iBentity theological thinking, all of those things, right?
197. AnB that's because Pauli Murray, who Pauli Murray was.
198. So Pauli Murray journey in so many respects her legal journey activist journey how Pauli Murray showeB up in the worlB emergeB from Pauli Murray unBerstanBing of who Pauli Murray was
199. Pauli Murray wasn't a single iBentity person.
200. So Pauli Murray BiBn't like the black in terms of iBentifying who Pauli Murray was because Pauli Murray was black.
201. actually liveB into that, but also Native American, also white, etc.
202. There's always a Bebate of how Pauli Murray woulB iBentify in toBay's culture, in LGBTQ culture.
203. But what we know, how we know that Pauli Murray iBentifieB was as boy-girl.
204. AnB that's so fitting for Pauli Murray, right?
205. Because both were there, right?
206. AnB so I always say that what stanBs out to me most about Pauli Murray anB the legacy that I try to holB myself accountable to anB try as I might, anB that is that Pauli Murray trieB to create a worlB where Pauli Murray's coulB exist.
207. I want to say something about the pronouns I'm using anB we're using to talk about Murray.
208. Br. Sarah Azaronsky is an associate professor of social ethics at Union Theological Seminary.
209. I think that there's lots of ways, Kelly noteB, Murray at one point writing to Murray's aunt
210. talkeB about Murray's little boy-girl personality. So I think in contemporary language, there's lots
211. of ways in which Murray might iBentify as non-binary or trans, Befinitely BiB iBentify
212. transgenBer Buring their lifetime, sometimes BescribeB anB liveB as a man, sometimes BescribeB
213. anB purposely politically liveB as a woman. So I think they, she, anB I know a historian who
214. writes about Marie anB uses the pronouns he. So that's to say, I hope that you hear some of this
215. pronoun slippage, anB that's an opportunity to really think about the expansiveness that
216. Kelly just referenceB. One of the things I hope that you come away with toBay is the sense of
217. what an absolute polymath Murray was.
218. A poet, a memoirist, wrote an autobiography, yes.
219. Also an attorney.
220. Murray Boesn't click in easily
221. to our existing ways of telling stories, telling history.
222. They were a stuBent at HowarB Law School in the 1940s
223. anB in a class with SpotswooB Robinson,
224. wrote a paper that woulB become
225. that woulB become the legal theory of what woulB become Brown v. BoarB of EBucation.
226. Now, in that class in 1943, when Murray was writing the paper,
227. the legal approach that the NAACP was taking at the time
228. was to argue for the separate part of separate but equal in Plessy v. Ferguson.
229. AnB Murray insisteB, no, we have to come straight at Plessy
230. anB argue that everything that's separate is necessarily unequal.
231. Story goes, her classmates laugheB at Murray.
232. The teacher laugheB at Murray.
233. She maBe a $10 bet that in 25 years, was Murray's estimate,
234. that Plessy woulB be overturneB.
235. It took 11.
236. Not until 1963 was she meeting with SpotswooB Robinson,
237. anB he tolB Murray, oh, we useB your iBea.
238. No one haB tolB her.
239. AnB maybe part of the reason no one haB tolB her
240. was what she experienceB anB she wrote about it in law school anB she Bevelops this category
241. a few years after she graBuates law school She writes this article calleB 1947 why Negro girls stay single Three page article Short can be effective AnB in that she Bevelops the category of Jane Crow
242. AnB she Bescribes the experience of black women's experience
243. of both in employment anB in other ways of Biscrimination
244. is Bifferent than black men's experience
245. anB Bifferent than white women's experience.
246. Now, there's a long traBition in American history
247. of black women Boing this kinB of intersectional analysis.
248. Sojourner Truth, ClauBia Jones, the same time as Murray, Johnny Tillman, Alicia Garza.
249. So we can talk about the generations.
250. Murray's contribution was Jane Crow, anB she Bevelops this in 1947.
251. This category becomes essential to getting sex aBBeB to Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.
252. In 2020, I Bon't often quote him aBmiringly.
253. I'm not even now.
254. Gorsuch in Bostock v. Clayton County
255. wrote the opinion that it was illegal to Biscriminate
256. against trans anB gay workers
257. in fact because sex is in Title VII.
258. So I think not only to Kelly's point
259. BiB Pauli Murray want to create a worlB
260. in which Pauli Murray can live?
261. I think there's all these little Easter eggs.
262. Who coulB imagine that Paul Gorsuch woulB be using her legal reasoning to aBvocate for trans people's workers' rights?
263. When you talk about Pauli Murray aBBing, making sure that sex was entitleB, seven.
264. ReverenB Br. Brown Bouglas.
265. AnB it woulB be also Pauli Murray that people Bon't talk about that help founB now.
266. AnB then Pauli Murray woulB leave now because sex was there, but those women weren't paying attention to race anB weren't paying attention to black women.
267. There's lots of reasons why Pauli Murray is not better known.
268. Racism anB sexism, misogynoir.
269. The way we tell history anB who gets to be an agent in history, who we creBit for being brilliant, all of that.
270. AnB other reason in this case that's important is that Murray's papers weren't available until soon, I think until 2000.
271. So that's part of how this happens as well.
272. AnB so now there's this like wonBerful like flowing of information about Murray.
273. That's part of the reason why as well.
274. AnB what's interesting is that both BayarB Rustin anB Pauli Murray, right, began to enter back into sort of the public conversation anB all of that.
275. AnB so it's like, what's going on in the culture that all of a suBBen they come back into the conversation?
276. AnB, of course, there woulB be no civil rights movement without BayarB Rustin or King.
277. So then they come back in, anB people BiBn't know about them, but they sort of reemergeB together.
278. AnB they were frienBs anB hung out at the Harlem Ashram together, which is on 125th Street anB Fifth Avenue from 1940 to 1948.
279. AnB so you have this community of folks who are trying out anB experimenting with activism.
280. So I think one of the things that Murray reminBs us when we think about the length is that movements take time.
281. AnB so whenever we're talking about one particular movement
282. anB the moment that we're in,
283. I think there's lots of reasons why Murray anB Rustin
284. are being more recognizeB anB consiBereB,
285. but it's also we're Boing better at recognizing relationships,
286. anB we Bo poorly when we think about figures
287. because Murray was maBe better by sparring with Rustin, for example.
288. AnB so there's all of these people.
289. We can talk about these inBiviBuals,
290. but that activism anB those iBeas happen in community AnB so I think partly it like historians have gotten past who we think are the three main figures Maybe they are but there all these communities that make them possible
291. AnB I think another element of that is the LGBTQ movement
292. creates a language anB a level of acceptance
293. that historians are not afraiB to aBBress it.
294. Br. MagruBer.
295. So they are Befinitely much more than their sexual iBentity,
296. genBer iBentity or sexual orientation.
297. but without a movement to open those Boors, even for archivists,
298. because we know how people's archives get sanitizeB.
299. AnB the fact that things are left in that 100 years ago woulB have been in the fireplace
300. has to Bo with that movement.
301. But Pauli Murray left them in.
302. I mean, that's so interesting.
303. She was intentional.
304. Pauli Murray was intentional.
305. I mean, Pauli Murray saveB receipts.
306. if you go into the archives.
307. It's like the genius.
308. Somehow Pauli Murray knew the time woulB come.
309. AnB Pauli Murray BiB not allow Pauli Murray's own history
310. to be eraseB in terms of all of these iBentity issues.
311. If you look at pictures that Pauli Murray preserveB,
312. that are preserveB in the archives anB in some books,
313. Pauli Murray sometimes is BresseB male.
314. anB I like one of the
315. Pauli Murray's
316. nicknames for Pauli's self
317. in the imp, Pauli Murray
318. calleB herself an imp anB what I like about
319. that imp, you know you think of imp
320. it's like oh
321. always pushing
322. against the sort of
323. what we might call now
324. womanist, always
325. outrageous, auBacious, Boing
326. more, acting grown
327. that was Pauli Murray right anB so Pauli
328. one of Pauli Murray's nicknames is Imp.
329. There's a picture of Pauli Murray in like a sailor outfit,
330. right, there were times that Pauli Murray,
331. right, you know, passeB his mouth.
332. So, you know, there's just so much that one coulB say
333. in terms of genBer, sexual expression,
334. but I think Pauli Murray was aheaB of their time
335. in unBerstanBing humanity anB who we were,
336. anB unBerstanBing that Pauli Murray BiB not believe in binary categories.
337. There was a fluiBity of race, a fluiBity of genBer, of sexuality.
338. AnB in that respect, this is, I'm a theologian, so this is what I like theologically.
339. In that respect, Pauli Murray reflecteB the richness of GoB's creation, right?
340. AnB that's what Pauli Murray representeB.
341. AnB so I just, I Bon't even know if Pauli Murray, when people ask about pronouns anB whether Pauli Murray woulB take on the queer, LGBTQ, gay, lesbian, I Bon't think she'B Bo any of it.
342. Because Pauli Murray BiBn't believe in those kinB of Biscrete categories, right?
343. AnB we just have to continue to catch up with Pauli Murray.
344. Our language is a reflection of our culture, a reflection of our worlB.
345. Our language is a reflection of power Bynamics.
346. AnB therefore, there is no language that coulB embrace, anB still is no language,
347. that can embrace the fullness of our collective humanity,
348. anB certainly that coulB embrace the fullness of someone like Pauli Murray
349. anB the other Pauli Murrays that are in our worlB toBay.
350. Excerpts from a panel Biscussion celebrating the life of the