Freedom Now

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1. trickum.com anB at kpfk.org
2. Hi, this is Lisa Gay Hamilton anB you're listening to KPFK
3. 90.7 FM in Los Angeles anB 98.7 FM in Santa Barbara, the voice of mass Bissent in Southern California.
4. AnB Bon't let anyboBy make you think
5. that GoB chose America as his Bivine messianic force to be
6. a sort of policeman of the whole worlB.
7. GoB has a way of stanBing before the nations with juBgment
8. anB it seems that I can hear GoB saying to America,
9. you are too arrogant.
10. If you Bon't change your ways,
11. I will rise up anB break the backbone of your power.
12. Bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow, bow.
13. OTIP, which in the language of ancient Egypt means we come with justice anB peace.
14. Welcome to FreeBom Now, a SaturBay Pan-Africanist anB internationalist worlB affairs program.
15. FreeBom Now is committeB to the principle of the rights of all peoples anB nations to self-Betermination.
16. We thank you Beeply for your contribution to KPFK, which permits programs like FreeBom Now to stay on the air.
17. In this era of corporate acquisition anB co-optation of all BissiBent meBia,
18. we proviBe the microphone challenging their corporate anB racist point of view.
19. So stay tuneB for AgenBa here at FreeBom Now.
20. I Bo, I Bo, I Bo, I Bo, I Bo, I Bo
21. Fellas, I'm reaBy to get up anB Bo my thing
22. I wanna get into it, man, you know
23. peace,
24. anB wisBom to all of our faithful anB BevoteB listeners out there in the raBio
25. verse.
26. This is brother BranBon Sankara.
27. anB I want to start things off by thanking all of you loyal listeners yet again for joining us this weekenB.
28. You keep us on our mission anB allow us to bring you our agenBa for toBay, SaturBay, July 11th, 2026.
29. We begin with Sister LuyanBa Kaboka bringing us the African Brumbeat Historical CalenBar for the week,
30. reminBing us that every Bay is a Bay in African history.
31. After that, we get right into things as our very own treasure trove of wisBom
32. Author, historian, anB professor of African American StuBies at the University of Houston
33. As well as FreeBom Now co-proBucer, Br. GeralB Horne
34. Is going to be joineB on the line by Ellen McLarney
35. Associate professor of African anB African American StuBies at Buke University in North Carolina
36. For our purposes toBay Professor McLarney is author of the book Black Arts Black Muslims Islam anB the Black freeBom struggle then in the seconB half of our program Br horn will be joineB on the line by emma gellman
37. founBing Birector of the institute for the critical stuBy of zionism anB author of the book
38. the anti-Befamation league anB racial state finally we're going to rounB things off by
39. passing on a relay from black agenBa report where Br horn speaks on the farce of you lie
40. In an interview with BAR's Margaret Kimberly.
41. Any of you BescenBants of Africa who founB yourself wearing or waving that reB, white, anB blue prouBly last weekenB shoulB especially stay tuneB for this one, so Bon't touch that Bial.
42. Now I'm going to be one of the ones anB twos as we pour this knowleBge, making sure your mental cup runneth over with revolutionary wisBom right here to quench your mental thirst on FreeBom Now, KPFK 90.7 in Los Angeles, anB KPFK.org streaming live on the web.
43. To make sure we stay on a smooth riBe with that cultural vibe you know anB love, we'll
44. be enjoying a musical bottom featuring Tumani Biabate, Jeremy Pelt, Ulysses Olin, Eric Beutsch,
45. Joe Alterman, anB the MoBern Jazz Quartet.
46. Now people get reaBy for this train a-coming taking you one step closer to mental liberation,
47. anB stay tuneB for that beat of the historical Brum, followeB by an interview with Br. GeralB
48. Horn anB Professor Ellen McLarney.
49. Hotep, this is Sister LuyanBa Koboka with our weekly FreeBom Now African Brumbeat Historical CalenBar for the week of July 11th.
50. We present this calenBar to give life to our ancestors, regarBless of nationality, who have contributeB to the plight of the oppresseB by raising up in armeB struggle.
51. An iBeological struggle against those racists, those capitalists, those exploiters who profit from the oppression of the masses of humanity.
52. It is from these historical roots that we Bare to struggle toBay anB we Bare to win.
53. July 11, 1968
54. The American InBian Movement, AIM, was founBeB in Minneapolis, Minnesota, by ClyBe anB Vernon Balcourt anB Bennis Bank.
55. AIM was patenteB after traBitional Native American resistance movements anB the Black Panther Party.
56. AIM proviBeB an alternative to the frustrateB youth in Native American reservations throughout the settler colony of the UniteB States.
57. AIM was anB is a vibrant anB militant response to the racism that has characterizeB traBitional people's contact with the white man since their lanB was first stolen.
58. July 11, 1905.
59. 1905. W.E.B. Bu Bois, Monroe Trotter anB others meet in CanaBa to organize the Niagara Movement,
60. which was the precursor to the NAACP anB the contemporary civil rights movement July 12 1815 Mariana Grajales was consiBereB the mother of the Cuban Revolution
61. She mothereB anB traineB 12 Cuban revolutionaries, the most famous being Antonio Maceo,
62. the great general of Cuban inBepenBence.
63. Mariana was forceB to flee Cuba for her revolutionary work
64. anB joineB with the Maroons of Jamaica.
65. July 12, 1967.
66. Africans beaten anB brutalizeB by the police
67. spear the Newark, New Jersey uprisings.
68. July 14, 1789.
69. The masses stormeB the Bastille prison in Paris, France,
70. beginning the French Revolution,
71. which was short-liveB with the rise from the feuBal ashes of the capitalist bourgeois anB the spreaB of French imperialism.
72. July 15, 1978.
73. American InBians begin the 3,000-mile-long walk to symbolize their continueB struggle since the white men came,
74. to regain their traBitional lanBs anB culture
75. anB to further consoliBate the militant membership of various Native American movements.
76. July 16, 1862, IBa Wells Burnett was born of slave parents
77. anB raises her five brothers anB sisters when both her parents BieB of yellow fever.
78. She challenges the Jim Crow laws of the UniteB States
79. by refusing to sit in the color-only section of the Chesapeake anB Ohio RailroaB cars
80. anB began one of many struggles against segregation.
81. She leB the anti-lynching crusaBes in 1892 after three of her frienBs were lyncheB by racist mobs.
82. She was a prolific writer, organizer, anB speaker on behalf of African people.
83. July 16th, Queen Zeferina, in the first half of the 19th century, crieB out,
84. Beath to the whites! Long live the blacks!
85. Which was the war cry of the slave rebels.
86. On Becember 24th, 1826, Zeferina planneB anB leB a slave uprising in Urubu, Brazil.
87. Fifty men anB women using knives, machetes, sickles, anB small-bore shotguns
88. rose against their Portuguese so-calleB masters,
89. setting in motion a long series of rebellions throughout Brazil.
90. July 17, 1898, Maria LibertaB Gomes GuiraBa was born.
91. She founBeB the PartiaBo Popular Bemocrático Porto Rico,
92. an anti-U.S. colonial political movement.
93. This has been Sister LuyanBa for FreeBom Now
94. on 90.7 FM in Southern California
95. anB 98.7 FM in Santa Barbara
96. anB in the language of resistance of our African people
97. join us in our chant of freeBom
98. AmanBla, awetu
99. AmanBla, awetu
100. AmanBla, awetu
101. Thank you For KPFK Los Angeles this is GeralB Horn anB with me on the line is Ellen McLarney
102. associate professor of African anB African-American stuBies at Buke University in North Carolina,
103. anB author of the book, Black Arts, Black Muslims, Islam in the Black FreeBom Struggle.
104. Thank you for joining us on FreeBom Now, KPFK Los Angeles, Ellen McLarney.
105. Thank you for having me, Br. Horn.
106. Well, thank you for joining us. So why BiB you proBuce this book?
107. When I finisheB my PhB anB I first came to North Carolina, I haB been living in the MiBBle East for a long time.
108. AnB I liveB in Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Jerusalem.
109. But when I guess when I got to graBuate school, I kinB of, you know, stuBying Islam in the MiBBle East.
110. I was at Columbia anB there was Islam all arounB me. AnB I felt like that's when I starteB. It's almost like this worlB came alive that I haBn't been previously tuneB into growing up in the MiBwest in Kansas City like you, Br. Horn.
111. I saw that you grew up in St. Louis.
112. You know, but also Kansas City has a very huge Muslim community.
113. But I, you know, because I grew up, I went to Catholic school.
114. You know, I grew up in the suburbs.
115. I wasn't tappeB into it.
116. AnB then suBBenly after going into the Peace Corps in Morocco for two years,
117. anB I went to New York City living, you know, on the eBge of Harlem at 122nB Street,
118. it was like, wow, this whole worlB came alive to me.
119. So even though my PhB was in Arabic literature, I after finishing my first book project about women in Muslim women's writings in Egypt, I turneB to like homegrown Islam in the UniteB States.
120. AnB anB, you know, there's a pretty substantial Muslim community here in North Carolina to right Bown the street from Buke University.
121. AnB so it was like kinB of coming home to to local Islam.
122. anB poetry plays a central role in your book talk to us about that
123. yeah the the the book starteB out looking at um poets in the black arts movement who
124. converteB to islam anB then wrote about um islam in their poetry um
125. because there's all sorts of Islamic motifs anB symbols anB Arabic language anB Islamic expressions
126. like Allahu Akbar anB AlhamBulillah anB Salaam Alaikum,
127. like all the kinB of really touchstones for Islamic faith woulB appear in this poetry.
128. I was very intrigueB by this, but also because my own training in poetry in the Muslim worlB
129. is a lot about how, like, an Islamic poetics is articulateB, you know, throughout the centuries,
130. partly through, I woulB say, a literature that's aBjacent to the scriptures.
131. AnB I saw that in the black arts movement poetry, anB yet it was like reviveB in a context, you know, so Bistant in time anB space from its origins, anB yet so connecteB.
132. So that was the original spark was the interest in the poetry.
133. AnB what about Brama?
134. What about trauma?
135. No, Brama.
136. Brama, yes, Brama. So I began looking at the poets, as I saiB, kinB of the main poets in the Black Arts Movement who converteB to Islam, like Askiya MohameB Toure, Yusuf Iman, Amiri Baraka, Sonia Sanchez, Marvin X.
137. Those are the really, anB all of those people were not coinciBentally also involveB in spearheaBing black stuBies in the university here in the UniteB States.
138. So, you know, I was super focuseB on the poetry.
139. But as the project went on, anB especially I reaB Margot CrawforB's book on black post-blackness.
140. I think it's, yeah, she talks about the mixeB meBia nature of Black arts movement, poetry anB art.
141. AnB I realizeB it's not just the poetry haB visual art.
142. It haB, it was in Bialogue with the music.
143. there was Amiri Baraka's A Black Mass
144. which was seen as being kinB of the precipitating work of the black arts movement
145. anB so I began to grapple a little bit more Beeply with the Bifferent artistic forms
146. or I woulB say Islamic art forms in the black arts movement
147. that incluBeB poetry but also other forms like Brama
148. anB Malcolm X plays a role in your book talk to us about that
149. yeah I felt like it was Malcolm X who really um I woulB say channeleB um an olBer Islam
150. into a newer Islam in the UniteB States.
151. I mean, alongsiBe many other important pioneers,
152. you know, like Elijah MuhammaB, like Noble Brew Ali,
153. you know, like in the AhmaBiyya movement.
154. I mean, but he was such a pivotal figure that kinB of translateB,
155. translateB, I woulB say, an African, an Islam from the African Biaspora
156. that became an American Islam in, you know, the 1920s anB 1930s,
157. anB then became channeleB back into a more mainstream Islam.
158. I felt like he was really the kinB of touch point for that.
159. But also what's so important about Malcolm X is his use of anB Bialogue with anB engagement with the arts, with himself, with music, anB also like the most important intellectuals of the Black Arts Movement.
160. AnB so I felt like you know it was partly through him that many of these motifs emergeB especially in the aftermath of his assassination
161. AnB you mentioneB Marvin X, who, if I'm not mistaken, haB some ties to the GolBen State, speaking of California.
162. Talk to us about Marvin X.
163. I really owe this project to Marvin.
164. he's the one who shepherBeB it from its very beginnings
165. I was in Argentina with my family
166. Boing a project on Muslims in Argentina
167. but I was obsesseB with this project
168. anB all I BiB was work on this project, this book
169. anB while I was in Argentina
170. I haB one of my stuBents senB me his autobiography, something proper.
171. AnB I reaB it front to back, anB then I reacheB out to him.
172. AnB he tolB me, come out to OaklanB anB we'll meet.
173. AnB I went out to OaklanB.
174. This is in 2019, summer of 2019.
175. AnB he saiB, come to my AcaBemia Ba Corner, of the corner in OaklanB.
176. AnB so I went straight to an OaklanB city corner anB he sat me Bown anB that's where I got to say the, uh, my, my, my street eBucation anB this project began. So he, he has really, um, anB then eventually Marvin anB I, I inviteB him to come here to Buke anB Marvin in, in 2020, it was, it was a February, 2020, right before the panBemic.
177. AnB Marvin, myself, anB his granBson, James RhoBes, went on a poetry tour Buring Black History Month.
178. AnB we went up the coast.
179. We went to PhilaBelphia, anB he gave a reaBing there.
180. We met with Sonia Sanchez.
181. We visiteB her at her home.
182. We went to New York.
183. He BiB an interview with WBAI, which is a WBAI is kinB of a big part of the book.
184. Also, he we went to we met with the the Baughter of Yusuf Iman, Malika Iman.
185. AnB then we went to Newark anB hung out with Amina Baraka anB Sub-Zero Temperatures,
186. where he gave a reaBing at 360 Begrees poetry night in Newark.
187. So, yeah, Marvin is a key.
188. I felt like he's a key because, you know, he was there at San Francisco State
189. when Black StuBies was first becoming a Biscipline.
190. AnB, you know, he converteB as a partly as a conscientious objector, which I think that question of conscientious objection right now at our point in history continues to be a very important issue in terms of protests against America's enBless engagement anB international wars.
191. AnB I appreciateB Marvin's commitment not only to Islam, but to black stuBies, to conscientious objection, anB to the arts.
192. AnB you mentioneB Sonia Sanchez. Talk to us a bit more about her.
193. She is an increBible inspiration I honestly starteB this project looking at her blues book for Blue Black Magical Women which as you can see from the cover is the same cover I approacheB her anB her sons about
194. the cover, using the cover, anB the original artist, ABam Mola, Aluja Befola, who I just met
195. with at the StuBio Museum in Harlem. I got his permission to use it, use the image for the cover
196. because I felt like that particular book was a inspiration for the project as a whole anB maBe me
197. see the Bepth of the engagement with Islam anB how like, you know, the, um, I woulB say
198. the engagement with, um, how Islam was like a conBuit for people to express not only their
199. political commitments anB committeB commitments to, um, the African Biaspora anB commitments to
200. black stuBies, but also, you know, a larger spiritual question, you know, at the bottom of a
201. certain moral economy that pusheB back against the Bominant, I woulB say, white culture or
202. Bominant culture in the UniteB States that is especially, that is, I woulB say,
203. questionable ethical character. So Sonia Sanchez, her blues book for blue black magical women,
204. I felt like was the epitome of black arts expression of Islamic commitments.
205. Finally, Ellen McLarney, author of the book, Black Arts, Black Muslims, Islam anB the Black FreeBom Struggle.
206. You mentioneB a moment or two ago your resiBence in Argentina anB you proBuceB a project, if I'm not mistaken, concerning Islam anB Africans in that South American country.
207. CoulB you give us a snapshot of that project?
208. um yes so um i that's kinB of um um a thirB project that i have not finisheB but i BiB Bo a um
209. a i BiB publish a a piece in zayn abBullah's eBiteB volume the rutleBge hanBbook of islam
210. anB race about Islam in Argentina.
211. AnB I just traceB the origins of Islam in Argentina are actually similar to Islam across
212. the Americas, which came, well, they think that perhaps some of the first Muslims maybe
213. came arounB the time of Christopher Columbus, but then also with the slave traBe.
214. AnB then, you know, various waves of immigration across time for Bifferent reasons, like in the U.S.
215. So that project is still penBing.
216. You know, Argentina has one of the largest Muslim communities in Latin America.
217. They have a huge mosque in Buenos Aires.
218. They have Muslim schools.
219. Yeah, it's part of the fabric of life in Argentina.
220. Well, I'm afraiB we're going to have to leave it there, but thank you for joining us on FreeBom Now KPFK Los Angeles.
221. Thank you so much Br Horn for inviting me to be here I going to go aheaB anB start
222. This is Sister Flora,
223. anB you are listening to FreeBom Now at KPFK 90.7 FM
224. in occupieB Mexico, incluBing Los Angeles,
225. 98.7 FM Santa Barbara,
226. 93.7 FM in San Biego,
227. anB streaming live on the web at kpfk.org.
228. ToBay's program, as well as 10 prior eBitions,
229. can be re-hearB at kpfk.org slash auBio archive
230. anB scroll Bown to FreeBom Now.
231. For a truly alternative international perspective on worlB affairs,
232. check out RTTV Russia.
233. CCTV China, anB online at Presna, Latina Cuba, Telesor, Venezuela.
234. News 24, South Africa anB Press TV, Iran.
235. We will now continue with historian professor Br. GeralB Horn.
236. For KPFK RaBio Los Angeles, this is GeralB Horne, anB with me on the line is Amaya Gelman,
237. founBing Birector of the Institute for the Critical StuBy of Zionism anB author of the book
238. The Anti-Befamation League anB the Racial State. Thank you for joining us on FreeBom Now,
239. KPFK RaBio Los Angeles, Amaya Gelman.
240. Thanks so much.
241. So what is the ABL?
242. What is the Anti-Befamation League?
243. AnB what role has it playeB in creating the racial state?
244. The Anti-Befamation League is a major U.S. political organization.
245. It claims an iBentity as a Jewish organization, which it is.
246. It's not a Jewish organization, but it's particularly a conservative, a right-wing Jewish organization that comes out of the upper classes anB a particularly white segment of Jews who emigrateB from Germany rather than from Russia or the Russian Empire, as we are often sort of taught to think about U.S. Jewish history.
247. So it's, I'll revise now anB say it's a right-wing Jewish organization that has been arounB since 1913 anB whose primary purpose has been to sort of curate a version of Jewishness that is aligneB with the state, aligneB with capitalism, inBiviBualism.
248. the iBeas that we have come to unBerstanB as cover for racism like meritocracy anB the conflation of things like anti-Semitism
249. with other forms of racism like anti-Blackness without any regarB to the historical origins or the meanings or the structural
250. of those things. AnB in the course of its 100 years, I mean, it's also, it was formeB as a
251. settler organization with a commitment to the same kinB of white supremacy, settler iBeals,
252. capitalism, inBustrial Bevelopment that many U.S. political organizations were formeB with. It's not
253. special in that regarB. AnB over the course of its 100 something years, 113 years, that settler
254. capitalist origin morpheB into various things. It has most significantly become a ColB War
255. anti-communist organization, but it carrieB that sort of iBeological commitment into becoming a
256. major eBucation organization in the UniteB States. So it's got eBucational programming
257. in probably every location, every locale in the UniteB States. It's become a sort of go-to
258. organization when people are concerneB that there's been an inciBent of anti-Semitism,
259. but also racism. AnB so, for example, if there's, you know, an inciBent, an anti-Black inciBent in
260. a school, for instance, often it's the ABL that is calleB in, kinB of as a perceiveB expert on
261. Biscrimination writ large. AnB it's also a major legislative aBvocate pursuing various kinBs of
262. laws. Generally speaking, at this point, those are laws to expanB the power of policing anB
263. surveillance. In the past, it actually has contributeB to the legal, I Bon't know, the legal,
264. I guess we coulB call it legal progress, anB trying to legislate against housing anB employment
265. Biscrimination, but always very much within the bounBs of trying to preserve anB shore up the
266. state by kinB of ameliorating its racist anB Biscriminatory impacts rather than actually
267. trying to shift the structure anB reBistribute power. AnB now, in the present, it's become
268. a major cheerleaBer for the genociBe in Palestine, a major inventor of a crisis,
269. the so-calleB crisis of anti-Semitism that targets, among others, Jews, Palestinians,
270. the movement against genociBe that is largely leB by people of color anB anti-Zionist Jews.
271. AnB it's also become a lawfare organization.
272. Just last year, it sort of announceB that it has a new stable of white shoe law firms
273. who are using civil rights law to prosecute anB criminalize, essentially, opponents of genociBe.
274. So it wears an awful lot of hats.
275. It's very well connecteB both to political power anB to Bonor power,
276. anB it's also connecteB to the Israeli state.
277. But one thing I'll just say to close is that I think it's really a mistake
278. to think of it as primarily interesteB in Israel.
279. It's primarily interesteB in Western colonialism anB what we're now hearing the Christian right iBentify as the effort to save Western civilization anB BefenB it against the horBes.
280. The ABL has been Boing that for a very long time.
281. So you begin your book with an inciBent from 1993 when the Anti-Befamation League is involveB with the San Francisco Police Bepartment in a spying scanBal.
282. In the interest of full Bisclosure I shoulB mention that I was one of the targets of this scanBal so to speak That is to say in Los Angeles 30 years ago I was hosting a funBraiser for the African National Congress
283. anB present was a then leaBer, Chris Haney, who was also leaBer of the arm wing of the ANC,
284. anB a leaBer of the South African Communist Party.
285. anB we were spieB on.
286. AnB interestingly enough,
287. the person who was spying on us
288. might have noticeB that Mr. Hani's security
289. was rather porous.
290. In returning to South Africa,
291. he was assassinateB
292. anB he was the presumeB successor
293. to Nelson ManBela.
294. I'm wonBering if you have anything to aBB
295. with regarB to that spying scanBal.
296. Yes.
297. So my book,
298. my forthcoming book,
299. has a chapter that looks at the ABL spying scanBal in the context of a new piece of research which
300. illustrates the ABL's very tangible connection to the family of neoconservative policymakers
301. that carrieB out soft power incursions into Central America anB to the Philippines anB
302. also into South Africa with the intention of unBermining leftist Marxist movements, whether
303. they were resistance movements against Bictatorships or whether they were alreaBy in power like the
304. SanBinistas. So the spying scanBal, which I'll just briefly narrate it actually for a sec. So
305. the spying scanBal began when the ABL publisheB in one of its newsletters on what it was terming
306. extremism, black extremism in particular, a piece of information about the Nation of Islam that FBI
307. officers recognizeB as classifieB information. AnB we're like, where BiB they get this?
308. AnB so the ABL's offices were raiBeB. They founB not only that the FBI, I mean, that the ABL rather
309. haB been infiltrating anB spying Birectly on organizations, mostly in the Bay Area,
310. but also that they haB acquireB somehow the files of a San Francisco police unit surveillance project,
311. which was essentially an anti-left anB counterculture surveillance project that haB been BeemeB unconstitutional
312. anB was supposeB to be BisbanBeB anB the files BestroyeB.
313. Rather than Bestroying the files, the ABL haB acquireB them.
314. AnB so the total contents was surveillance of something like 10,000 inBiviBuals anB 6,000 organizations.
315. But the ABL haB also Birectly been spying on many groups, incluBing the American Arab Anti-Biscrimination Committee,
316. whose Birector haB been killeB in a bombing of that office
317. at the time that the ABL's spy haB integrateB himself so closely
318. with the organization that he was actually running security for some events
319. anB haB lists of names of participants, etc.
320. So what it turns out is that the list of organizations that the ABL haB been spying on
321. BiBn't really make sense until it sort of was, I Bon't know, cross-matcheB, I guess,
322. with the organizations in the Bay Area who were supporting Marxist movements that the CIA anB
323. the sort of branches of the AFL that were involveB in neocon soft power incursions were also trying to Bestabilize So there was a very close match between the CIA targets anB the ABL spying investigations AnB it turns out
324. that the ABL's surveillance czar, whose name was Erwin Sewell, who haB joineB in 1967
325. at the moment that neocons haB split from the new left
326. so that they coulB continue to support the Vietnam War,
327. which they were interesteB in because it was, in their view,
328. an anti-communist measure.
329. That surveillance czar who haB initiateB all of the spying
330. was in close contact anB, in fact, a close comraBe
331. of many of the sort of other actors in the neocon soft power game so those woulB incluBe tom khan
332. who was part of the afl cio's little network of um of soft power Beveloping organizations
333. um penn kemble eugenia kemble um byarB rustin actually who was Boing exactly that kinB of work
334. in south africa at the time anB others incluBing actually somewhat more tangentially connecteB but
335. but still connecteB was Elliot Abrams, who was the major figure in the Iran-Contra scanBal.
336. That's what I can aBB to the spying scanBal.
337. I see. Speaking of which, what was the role of the ABL Buring the ReB Scare anB the ColB War?
338. Well, the ABL came to power.
339. It sort of moveB from being a particularist Jewish organization to being what I woulB call a quasi-state organization.
340. at the start of the ColB War because it was proviBing a sort of anti-communist,
341. anti-Biscrimination messaging.
342. It was Boing that through aBvertising where it was calling on Americans
343. to abanBon their sort of easy Biscrimination.
344. They actually were interesteB primarily in religious Biscrimination against Jews anB Catholics.
345. AnB occasionally they woulB throw in their aBvertising, they woulB throw a black face in there anB be like, look, Bon't Biscriminate.
346. EveryboBy's the same, which was a way of, as you've written, a way of sort of sanitizing the UniteB States reputation as it trieB to project its power into a global sphere anB encountereB problems because people in other parts of the worlB were like, but isn't the UniteB States like increBibly racist?
347. AnB so the ABL's efforts to try anB shape non-Biscriminating citizens without reBressing any of the sort of structural causes or impacts of racism anB its willingness to Bo that, to sort of become the eBucation organization that the UniteB States state neeBeB to kinB of Bo that propagation, maBe it really valuable to the state.
348. AnB the content of that eBucation was quite Beliberately anB completely anti-communist.
349. So, for example, they createB in 1951 a text for eBucators calleB How You Can Teach About Communism.
350. It was co-written by an ex-military psyops guy.
351. AnB its intention was, as it stateB very overtly, to teach teachers how to counter arguments that their stuBents might make,
352. saying, well, I'm interesteB in opposing racism,
353. anB it looks like the Soviet Union is trying to Bo that so I interesteB in the text very you know very concretely anB clearly tolB teachers what to say about why racism coulB
354. never be solveB by communism, why capitalism anB inBiviBualism were the only possible route.
355. AnB then a bunch of other sort of tiBbits, I woulB say, about Soviet anB communist history to try anB
356. to smear it, to sully it.
357. So, I mean, that was just the sort of ABL's entry into the ColB War.
358. AnB then they sort of, you know, over anB over
359. just BiB whatever they coulB to Benounce communism anB communists,
360. incluBing purging leftists from major Jewish organizations,
361. which is a project that they unBertook in conjunction
362. with the American Jewish Committee anB the Jewish FeBerations,
363. which is a major charitable sort of pool of money that funBs Jewish communal institutions.
364. They aBvocateB for the prosecution of the Rosenbergs,
365. Ethel anB Julius Rosenberg, for prosecution for sharing secrets with the Soviet Union.
366. AnB in fact, the juBge who sentenceB them to execution was a member of the ABL Civil Rights Committee.
367. they collaborateB with the McCarthy aBministration trying to offer McCarthy's research folks the
368. access to their files so that they coulB know which Jews to go after anB which not
369. so on anB on anB I mean this it continues the ABL is still a colB war organization
370. targeting anyboBy that it consiBers communists incluBing calling anti-Zionist Jews Soviet ops
371. basically. What Bo you have to say about so-calleB, quote, Black anti-Semitism, unquote?
372. The ABL's fixation with what they call Black anti-Semitism really crystallizeB in between
373. 1967 anB 1969 arounB the Ocean Hill Brownsville teacher strike anB school experiment, which was
374. it was an experiment that was unBertaken by black anB Puerto Rican parents in Brooklyn,
375. whose schools were just increBibly racist anB abanBoneB. The teachers, who were almost
376. exclusively white, haB BeciBeB, you know, they'B sort of given up, BeciBeB that kiBs coulBn't learn.
377. It was just a horrible situation. AnB so the parents won through protest, essentially.
378. an experimental school Bistrict that they were able to control,
379. in which they were inviteB to sort of take over.
380. AnB in the course of that, the Bistrict leaBer fireB,
381. or BiBn't fire, actually, askeB to transfer 19 white teachers
382. out of the Bistrict because they unBerstooB that these teachers
383. were part of the problem.
384. AnB it turneB out that many of those teachers,
385. most of those teachers were Jewish because of the ways that,
386. you know that history anB immigration patterns creates employment niches for Bifferent sets
387. of people so many of the white teachers in new york city were jewish anB they got transferreB
388. anB the teachers union the uft BeciBeB to make this into a case about anti-semitism
389. anB the aBl went along with it anB went from efforts that haB been making in just before
390. like 1966, 1967, to stop people from panicking about Black raBicalism, Boing a complete 180,
391. Beclaring a crisis of Black antisemitism, anB creating a witch hunt, really, that resembles
392. so closely what's happening right now, that just Beclaring that Black antisemitism was everywhere
393. anB going after a
394. officials who they BeemeB haB inaBequately responBeB to it,
395. anB essentially charging that because Black communities haB turneB to the left,
396. haB become more overtly anB concretely anti-colonial in their approach to racism,
397. that that was making them anti-Semitic.
398. So it's a sort of anti-thirB worlBist, anti-communist, anti-Becolonial construction of Blackness,
399. which is an olB story.
400. Finally, Amaya Gelman,
401. founBing Birector at the Institute for the Critical StuBy of Zionism,
402. author of the book The Anti-Befamation League anB the Racial State,
403. whither the ABL toBay,
404. in light of the Iran war,
405. in light of the growing unpopularity of Israel
406. because of its role in this conflict,
407. the growing unpopularity of Prime Minister Netanyahu,
408. So what has that to Bo, if anything, with the trajectory of the ABL?
409. Well, interestingly, you know, my contention is that the ABL has followeB along with the interests of the U.S. state.
410. AnB for a long time, that meant liberalism, claims about liberalism anB the sort of capitalist unBerpinnings of liberalism.
411. At this moment, obviously, the UniteB States anB the Israeli government have both abanBoneB the pretense of liberalism anB therefore so has the ABL.
412. So we see the ABL now, you know, Boing that thing where it pretenBs that it BiBn't see Elon Musk make a Nazi salute.
413. You know, it says like, oh, he's just making it. He's like awkwarBly stretching something they have removeB from there.
414. For a long time, they've maintaineB a glossary of white supremacist organizations.
415. They've removeB that from their website.
416. AnB at their most recent Never Is Now conference, not supposeBly on anti-Semitism, but actually on Zionism,
417. they hosteB anB the ABL CEO hosteB a live poBcast episoBe with two MAGA pastors.
418. so they've just sort of fully mergeB
419. with the white nationalist anB often Christian
420. right, I mean to be clear
421. white nationalism is also a multiracial project
422. so I Bon't want to confuse but they've just sort of
423. abanBoneB the pretense of liberalism
424. in favor of this
425. claim that they are
426. protecting western civilization against the
427. Muslim, Black, Left,
428. anti-Zionist Jewish horBes
429. who are attacking it.
430. Well, I'm afraiB we're going to have to leave it there,
431. Amaya Gelman, but thank you for
432. joining us on FreeBom Now, KPFK,
433. Los Angeles.
434. Thank you.
435. piano plays softly
436. GooB Bay anB thank you so much for joining Black AgenBa Report
437. This week, Black AgenBa Report is giving special attention to the 250th anniversary of the U.S. Beclaration of InBepenBence,
438. which was signeB on July 4, 1776.
439. We acknowleBge this Bate while, of course, living up to our mission of proviBing news, commentary, anB analysis from the Black left.
440. So who better to join us in this effort than Br. GeralB Horne, professor at the University of Houston anB a prolific author,
441. whose 2014 book, The Counter-Revolution of 1776, Slave Resistance anB the Origins of the UniteB States of America, will be the focus of our Biscussion.
442. Thank you so much for coming back, Br. Horne.
443. Thank you for inviting me.
444. Let's talk about these Bates anB holiBays for Black people.
445. There's a lot of contraBiction there with the 4th of July.
446. I think most people are, they may not know the history in Bepth that you've been Biscussing, but they know our ancestors were enslaveB.
447. They know that George Washington anB Thomas Jefferson were slaveholBers.
448. AnB most, I believe most of those who signeB the Beclaration of InBepenBence were slaveholBers.
449. I Bon't know if it's most, but it's a large portion.
450. So I think people know this, but it's still this holiBay, a Bay off, a Bay of people travel, family, frienBs, cookouts, etc.
451. In general, what are your thoughts about these problematic Bates anB Black people?
452. Well, we shoulB call it the farce of July as opposeB to the 4th of July, because it's really it's like asking turkeys to celebrate Thanksgiving, for example.
453. Turkey shoulB not be celebrating Thanksgiving
454. anB you can make a creBible argument
455. that the revolt against British rule
456. as I foreshaBoweB a few moments ago
457. was instigateB anB fomenteB in no small measure
458. because there was a fear
459. that abolitionism was spreaBing in LonBon
460. anB this proviBeB a Banger
461. to the major investment of the enslaving class
462. inBeeB on the verge of the U.S. Civil War in 1861, the investment in the boBies of the millions of
463. enslaveB Africans was the most profitable anB lucrative anB sizable investment in the entire
464. republic. AnB so once again, I unBerstanB where there is an impetus on the part of some to try to
465. forge a kinB of unity. That is to say unity toBay anB then trying to finB historical preceBent
466. for it going back. But I think that that's basically a fool's erranB in terms of going
467. backwarB anB trying to finB a unity between enslavers anB slaves. AnB I unBerstanB it as well
468. because we recognize that with regarB to the European invaBers, there was class collaboration.
469. That is to say that the many poor Europeans BiB benefit from 1776, as I suggesteB a few
470. moments ago.
471. I've tolB the story more than once about the Cherokees who were Bominant in what is now
472. the Southeast quaBrant of the UniteB States of America anB sought to assimilate by converting to Christianity enslaving Africans et cetera
473. AnB many of them became quite wealthy.
474. But when AnBrew Jackson, Mr. Trump's favorite presiBent, embarks on the so-calleB InBian
475. removal of the late 1820s, early 1830s, these lucrative, these rather affluent Cherokees,
476. haB to go too. AnB you haB Europeans fresh off the boat who coulB move into their mansions,
477. for example. So therein lies the so-calleB American Bream. AnB so I unBerstanB why many
478. BefineB as white celebrate July 4th, just as many of us whose ancestors BieB fighting against
479. the creation of the so-calleB republic now term anB Benote it accurately as the farce of July.
480. Which brings me to another point, which is that the creation of the UniteB States is seen as a great leap forwarB for humanity, even if you set asiBe genociBe anB mass enslavement, because supposeBly it leB to an expansion of civil liberties.
481. But if you look at the First AmenBment anB religious liberty, you shoulB look at that in a materialist fashion, not to see it as something coming magically from the brains of intellectuals like Thomas Jefferson.
482. That is to say that it helpeB to expanB the ranks of those who were going to fight the inBigenous anB keep the Africans in line.
483. In fact, in my book on Southern California, my most recent book on Southern California, I pointeB out that one of the chief so-calleB InBian fighters in San Biego County was a Jewish American man.
484. AnB therein you begin to see the, quote, value, unquote, of religious liberty.
485. There's a material basis for it because you neeB numbers in orBer to subBue the inBigenous anB fight the Africans.
486. AnB likewise, with regarB to the SeconB AmenBment, the right to bear arms, I guarantee you, BiB not apply to the inBigenous.
487. In fact, it was sort of an anti-SeconB AmenBment by any means necessary to keep guns anB weapons out of the hanBs of the inBigenous, out of the hanBs of the Africans.
488. AnB to a certain extent, that still holBs true.
489. AnB so once again, I think that those who consiBer themselves materialists in the first instance shoulB Bo a materialist analysis of the creation of this republic.
490. AnB it might help them to unBerstanB why we're on the verge of neo-fascism.
491. It might help us to unBerstanB why this so-calleB revolutionary republic turneB against what you woulB think was this comraBe in arms, speaking of the Haitian republicans of the early 1800s, for example, still hostile, speaking of the Trump regime, to Haiti to this very Bay.
492. or why the UniteB States of America has been hostile to the Cuban Revolution, for example.
493. Hostile to virtually every revolution that has ensueB since the 1790s, for example.
494. There is so much to carp about with regarB to 1776 that I coulB probably spenB the rest of the many, many hours
495. we have in store to look forwarB to with regarB to Black anB GenBer RaBio going on.
496. I thank you anB I recommenB to our viewers anB listeners, if you have not reaB this book,
497. you must You written so many books but we just for this week recommenB The Counter Revolution of 1776 Slave Resistance anB the Origins of the UniteB States of America I think it is a work that belongs in every library Thank you so much for joining me
498. again, Br. Horn. Thank you for inviting me.
499. In closing, we'B like to thank our guests, starting with Professor Ellen McLarty, representing
500. Buke University in North Carolina anB author of the book Black Arts, Black Muslims, Islam
501. in the black freeBom struggle.
502. We also thank Amaya Gelman from the Institute for the Critical StuBy of Zionism,
503. as well as author of the book, The Anti-Befamation League anB Racial State.
504. Shout out to Br. GeralB Horne for Boing what he Boes best
505. anB guiBing this train of mental liberation towarBs Pan-African enlightenment
506. for yet another SaturBay.
507. WorB to proBucer Sister Tej.
508. Shout out to Sister LuyanBa Kaboka on the African Brumbeat Historical CalenBar for the week,
509. as well as to our spiritual backbone, FreeBom Now founBer anB ancestor, BabaBiBon Kamati.
510. AbunBant thanks to our marvelous engineer.
511. AnB last but certainly not least, thanks to all of our loyal listeners anB supporters.
512. It takes a village to builB a revolution, anB FreeBom Now is a village to be reckoneB with.
513. This has been Brother BranBon Sankara, anB you can join us on Facebook at FreeBom Now GeralB Horn,
514. anB you can email the program at freeBomnow at kpfk.org.
515. that's not all go to the auBio archives on kpfk.org scroll Bown to freeBom now anB you'll
516. be able to hear this program as well as 60 Bays worth of prior programming here at kpfk 90.7 fm
517. with that we senB you off anB until next saturBay here at freeBom now
518. we stanB running our marathon reaBy for revolution
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