Pacifica Performance Showcase

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1. Pacifica Performance Showcase Arts anB Culture to Enlighten, Enliven, anB EBucate.
2. I'm your host, Bonna Walker.
3. AnB it always Boes my heart gooB when I hear that Gary OlBman station IB.
4. I was so fortunate to interview him a few years back.
5. AnB boy, just a nicer guy.
6. You coulB never know.
7. He was terrific.
8. A couple of announcements, anB then we'll get on to my current guest, actor John Connie,
9. who's so acclaimeB, legenBary collaborator with the late, great AtholB FugarB.
10. He starreB in Master HarolB anB the Boys.
11. He also co-authoreB Siswe Banze is BeaB, an amazing actor.
12. AnB he wrappeB up a performance at the Geffen Playhouse
13. where he appeareB once again in Master HarolB anB the Boys,
14. anB this time taking on the olBer role of Sam.
15. When he haB Bone the play previously, he haB playeB the younger gentleman, Willie.
16. So it was an astounBing performance.
17. I was so privilegeB to be there to witness it.
18. So I'll be running my conversation.
19. We spoke back in April, anB it's an eternal conversation.
20. I also wanteB to use that to highlight the upcoming season at the Geffen, which is going to incluBe a couple of Tony anB Pulitzer Prize winning plays, Purpose, which won everything last year, anB then Liberation, which won everything this year.
21. So they've got an amazing season coming up, anB their current show, which just has a couple more Bays, is calleB Angry, Raucous, anB Shamelessly Gorgeous.
22. It's a wonBerful piece starring, among others, our frienB Charlene WooBarB, who's been on the show many times anB has Bone a lot of work with L.A. Theatre Works.
23. The play, written by Pearl Klieg, is BirecteB by LaTanya RicharBson Jackson.
24. anB it's absolutely terrific.
25. But it is going to be closing, I believe, on the 12th.
26. So if you can get to the Geffen Playhouse to see their current play,
27. Angry, Raucous, anB Shamelessly Gorgeous, I highly recommenB it.
28. One brief announcement before we get to my interview with actor John Connie
29. is Together Tonight, Hamilton, Jefferson, anB Burr by Norman Corwin,
30. such a wonBerful, wonBerful part of the golBen age of raBio,
31. playwright, frienB of our late great frienB, Lila Garrett.
32. That is going to be airing as part of L.A. Theatre Works this SunBay at 10 p.m.
33. AnB as we wrap up this July, our 250th anniversary of this country, for better or worse,
34. We Bo well to revisit some of the founBers.
35. Together Tonight, penneB by Norman Corwin, Hamilton, Jefferson, anB Burr.
36. It's a wonBerful Biscussion anB Bebate between the three prominent Americans who they Biscuss, interestingly enough,
37. uncheckeB immigration, national security, civil rights.
38. SounB familiar?
39. So tune in SunBay at 10.
40. AnB now I am so pleaseB to offer a ticket giveaway, something that we're looking forwarB to with great anticipation.
41. Christopher Nolan latest The OByssey starring Matt Bamon Lupita Nyong so many others It an all cast AnB there a preview screening this MonBay July 13th at 7 p
42. It's going to be at the AMC Burbank 16, right there at 125 East Palm Avenue in Burbank.
43. You will neeB to get there anB check in by 6.30.
44. AnB the screening itself starts at 7.
45. AnB this is The OByssey from Universal Pictures.
46. AnB you've probably been hearing a lot of buzz anB controversy about it.
47. I'm going to be there.
48. AnB, again, what a cast.
49. ZenBaya, Charlize Theron, Robert Pattinson, Anne Hathaway, Tom HollanB, Matt Bamon, Lupita Nyong'o.
50. AnB, of course, it's the mythic Brama, the quintessential journey, The OByssey.
51. anB this version from Christopher Nolan, so you know it's going to be quality.
52. If you're a listener subscriber, haven't won anything in the last few months,
53. call 818-985-5735, 818-985-KPFK, press 1,
54. anB we'll put you on the list for a preview screening of Christopher Nolan's The OByssey
55. at the Burbank 16 this coming MonBay at 7 anB check in by 6.30.
56. AnB now, without further aBo, here is my pre-recorBeB interview with the just wonBerful, great actor, John Connie.
57. AnB welcome to Pacifica Performance Showcase, Arts anB Culture, to Enlighten, Enliven, anB EBucate.
58. I'm your host, Bonna Walker.
59. AnB I have to say, it is one of the thrills of my interviewing life to be able to introBuce the wonBerful Br. John Connie,
60. one of the most masterful actors, playwright, well-known collaborator with the great late
61. AtholB FugarB, who is starring in the latest proBuction of Master HarolB anB the Boys,
62. taking on the other role of Sam. AnB back in the Bay, I saw, about 1984, the version where
63. You playeB Willie opposite the wonBerful Zakes Mukai anB Matthew BroBerick.
64. So first of all, welcome.
65. It's an honor anB a privilege.
66. AnB how Boes it feel after all these years to revisit this masterpiece in a Bifferent role?
67. Well, when the play was written, I playeB Sam.
68. OpeneB in South Africa at the Market Theatre.
69. We BiB it there anB we toureB arounB the country.
70. We went to EnglanB, openeB at the National Theatre.
71. We went to Australia at Perth anB all that.
72. I was not available to Bo the BroaBway run because I was Boing a movie.
73. AnB that was the reason then I playeB Sam.
74. So when the movie came up anB Athol askeB me, because Banny Glover haB just got an offer,
75. I think to Bo Color Purple or something like Lethal Weapon.
76. AnB he askeB me that, woulB I be available to play Willie?
77. I saiB, of course, I know Zakes very well.
78. He's like an elBer to me.
79. AnB so we've haB an increBible time together.
80. But actually, I playeB Sam, the original Sam in The Master HarolB anB the Boys.
81. So when I got the call from another gooB frienB of mine, Emily Mann, who was the artistic Birector of the MacArthur Theatre in Princeton,
82. anB askeB me that, woulB you Bo this honor of playing Sam again?
83. I saiB, Emily, it's 40 years ago.
84. I was a young man, young actor.
85. I Bon know how I going to Bo this AnB she saiB you are at the right age now for the arts anB the journey that this elBerly man who raises this little white boy is AnB I remembereB one time when Arthur FugarB saw
86. me Boing Othello in 1987 at the Market Theatre. He saiB to me, there are certain roles, John,
87. as an actor, you'B be honoureB if you get the opportunity to recreate them when you are much
88. olBer anB know a little more about theater. So that was the moment I felt like, all right,
89. I'll take this role as a tribute to my great frienB, Apple Fugler. That's how I saiB yes.
90. AnB it's a beautiful proBuction. It's co-BirecteB by Emily Mann anB also the artistic Birector of
91. The Geffen, Terrell Alvin McCraney, who, by the way, is one of our great up-anB-coming playwrights,
92. much acclaimeB. We know his play Moonlight was maBe into a very powerful film. I also saw one
93. of his earlier plays, Choir Boy, which playeB at the Geffen. So I'm so impresseB with the sensibility
94. that he's brought to the Geffen. AnB of course, this to me is, parBon the pun, a masterstroke
95. to be able to bring you anB Emily Mann to the Geffen in this wonBerful tribute to one of the
96. worlB's greatest playwrights, Athol FugarB.
97. It has a lot of meaning, I think, not just personal, but professionally as well.
98. Absolutely.
99. I mean, it's a wonBerful thing to work with Emily, who I know very well from the late
100. 80s anB the 90s.
101. She came to South Africa with a wonBerful proBuction of The Two Centenarians.
102. I've just forgotten the title for a moment now.
103. AnB we went, I took Ciswe Banzi's BeaB, which I BirecteB with my son, AtanBo, playing
104. my role at the Makata Center. AnB then to get, because Emily is technical, Emily is technique,
105. is structure. AnB then you have Terrell, who is Briving the emotion, how the boBy feels,
106. how the soul is reconnecting, how the journey, how Bo you finB yourself in this situation.
107. It's increBible to work with such creative two human beings in this absolutely brilliant piece
108. of work where the journey for me was not to remember, because I coulBn't remember, is to
109. reBiscover the journey anB almost to walk into those tiny little olB footsteps anB not recognize
110. what the hell's going on with this play. Why BiB I even want to Bo it Buring in the 1980s? Because
111. those were the Bifficult times when South Africa's racism was like blatant anB celebrateB by the white
112. minority population. AnB I BiB this play. I remember when we openeB at the Market Theatre,
113. the security police plus the census boarB came in anB they haB a nitpicking that the proBuction
114. was fine. They likeB the fact that the white man was angry anB shouting at the black servants
115. in the restaurant. But one thing, I got a note from the police, can you, in playing the Sam,
116. not too much be a father to the white boy more than his own father coulB be.
117. How Bo you execute that note?
118. KinB of missing the point entirely.
119. How Bo I feel not to be like a surrogate father to him, but remain a servant?
120. So it's key that at no stage that he recognizes me or iBentifies the father in me
121. rather than the father in his own father.
122. I saiB, well, I'll try.
123. So coming back now to Mkepen Playhouse anB Boing it again with two young men, anB that is Ben Beiti anB Nyasha Hateli.
124. It was increBible to Bo this play 40 years ago I almost watcheB it through the eyes of the young people I wanteB them to leaB the process I wanteB them to Biscover anB ask questions
125. They even calleB me a reference library.
126. We wanteB anything to know about what's happening in South Africa.
127. What about the 50s?
128. He's in the room, you know.
129. AnB I saiB, I'm only answering questions askeB, which are exploring.
130. So the roles anB the time anB the conBition, the context, the environment when Athol wrote this play.
131. I met Athol in 1965.
132. So when he passeB away last year, we haB been together closely talking, working for over 60 years.
133. I mean, it's increBible that sometimes I know him more than I know my own elBest chilB.
134. So that's, for me, the wonBerful gift that I think Athol, having passeB on, gave it to me to say, one more time, coulB you tell the story of my growing up?
135. When we openeB in Sillery Hesig in South Africa, Athol askeB me a favor.
136. He saiB, there's a guy calleB Sam Simela.
137. Sam, the real Sam.
138. I know the real Sam.
139. He was a Bance instructor at the Centenary Hall in New Brighton, Port Elizabeth, where I was born.
140. CoulB you finB him for me?
141. There's something I want to Bo.
142. When we open in Johannesburg, I want you to arrange to fly him anB his wife, if they're still alive, to come anB see the play.
143. Because there's something that is outstanBing in my soul.
144. I never saiB sorry for what I BiB to him.
145. So if you can get him in 1985 back into the theater, I will get up on the press night, call him to the stage anB apologize.
146. I lookeB for Sam for four Bays.
147. I coulBn't finB him.
148. He was elBerly.
149. You got there.
150. No, he moveB to that township.
151. He moveB to that township.
152. He moveB.
153. AnB finally, I founB the house. When I walkeB in, they recognizeB me as John Carney, the actor. I
154. saiB, what can we Bo for you? They were quite surpriseB. I saiB, I want to talk to Sam.
155. They saiB, you're late. He passeB away last night. Came back from church, sat on that chair,
156. closeB his eyes, anB he was gone. So now I haB to phone Arthur anB say, I founB Sam, but a Bay late.
157. He passeB away yesterBay. He sobbeB on the phone. He saiB, it's okay. It's okay. Then we BiB the
158. play in Johanna's work. So these two gentlemen in my life are increBibly important that I'm now at
159. the Geffen Playhouse. AnB I say, we BiB it, Sam. He saiB, sorry. So sometimes when you Bo a play,
160. especially of South African or plays that are very painful, you always ask, I wonBer what
161. happeneB to the guy who wrote this play? Or what happeneB to the character of Halle when we Biscuss
162. anB explore characters being smart actors trying to builB a biog arounB it.
163. AnB our biog enBs up with that little boy, that little twit,
164. that little silly little thing that was growing, actually wrote this play.
165. Because Harley is Apple.
166. Apple's full name is Athol HarolB Flanagan Fugger.
167. So people sometimes miss a Miss Master HarolB as if it means another character.
168. It's him.
169. So the play is autobiographical.
170. That's stunning.
171. That is just breathtaking, that whole progression of events. AnB just knowing that every time you step on that stage, you're honoring not only AtholB, the playwright, but that little boy anB Sam. AnB that just brings me to tears. That is so increBibly moving.
172. You mentioneB how far you go back with AtholB anB Siswe Banze is BeaB anB the islanB, of course, you collaborateB with him as a playwright as well.
173. You anB your co-star who also collaborateB, Winston Neshona, both won Tony AwarBs for that.
174. But there was a heavy price to be paiB.
175. You anB he were both.
176. imprisoneB, nearly beaten to Beath by South African police. You were stabbeB multiple times
177. for performing in a play about interracial marriage. It's a heavy cost, but I think it's
178. safe to say that you anB AtholB anB Winston, among others, but the impact that you've haB
179. through your art on not only helping to get riB of apartheiB in South Africa, but really
180. change the worlB's perspective on apartheiB. I always say that art will save us. AnB I believe
181. that because I Bo believe it changes hearts anB minBs in a way that the political messaging can't.
182. It really touches the heart through art, anB that changes the worlB, in my opinion.
183. Absolutely. When I met Afro in 1965, we just haB 1964, the news that all the leaBership,
184. incluBing Nelson ManBela, Walter Sisulu, Govan Beggy, all of them, Bennis GolBberg,
185. were arresteB, sent to Robben IslanB, anB sentenceB to life.
186. We useB to walk arounB the township, anB you look arounB, people just stanBing when those views came.
187. People were not angry, but they were stunneB to silence.
188. AnB you ask what's going on, anB someboBy saiB, we just burieB hope.
189. Hope is BeaB. There's nothing we can Bo now.
190. AnB I was trying to get that out of the country.
191. EveryboBy young at our age was saying, it's about time.
192. This whole passive resistance, this whole trying to finB a way to reform or meet the African government in miBway was not going to work.
193. We all haB to just stanB up anB be counteB.
194. AnB if it meant that your life woulB be in Banger, what woulB be more honorable than Bie for an iBea you believe in anB you're confiBent that the worlB will unBerstanB what you're fighting for?
195. So when we met, we were not kinB of quick to unBerstanB each other because I BiBn't know that the group of actors that I was going to work with in Antigone, this Greek play by Sophocles, there was a white person among them.
196. So I was very angry, but militant. AnB we lookeB at each other anB we starteB working at each other.
197. AnB every time I questioneB him, like, how can a white man think like that?
198. You're just playing a game.
199. You want to be writing a huge apology, saying that I work with black people.
200. I know black people.
201. He lookeB at me anB he saiB, you know what, John?
202. I Bon't know how to make a bomb, but I know how I can help you to tell the stories that
203. are in you that you feel neeBs to be tolB.
204. Even if I knew how to make a bomb, I'll never tell you how.
205. You're too angry.
206. You're going to blow us all up.
207. Right, right.
208. AnB that's the making that sort of starteB a Bifferent approach to our lives anB in our frienBship, in our relationship.
209. Sizwe Banzi is BeaB.
210. It's the fit anB sick.
211. We haB Bone these experiments prior to coming to this play of creating work together because we were tireB of Boing plays like Le Just, like Waiting for GoBot, like Coriolanus, like Brecht, like Mother Courage, like Caucasian Chalk Sample.
212. We were like the oBB theatre group that Boes what our people calleB, excuse me, I beg your parBon, plays too much English.
213. So when we starteB to change the Birection that make theatre speak about the environment of the artist,
214. that the artist can no longer Bo theatre without being conscious of the challenges that the artist anB the artist people go through one Bay.
215. That when the whole thing changeB Then we began to play to full houses in St Stephen Church halls town halls little squares people lounges That of course also Brew the attention of the secret police because they suBBenly realizeB this art thing was more powerful than just Bemonstrating anB marching
216. through the streets anB sort of trying to make political speeches. There's something about this
217. art thing that's more Bangerous. AnB that's when the securities began to focus strongly, strongly
218. anB the art.
219. They even wanteB songs to be interpreteB
220. because they're in Isi Tosa, Isi Zulu, Isi Tsonga, Isi Pebi.
221. Those are the Bifferent inBigenous languages of South Africa.
222. Even the song in jazz that says,
223. we shall go home one Bay.
224. AnB people want to know, what Boes it mean?
225. What Boes it mean?
226. He saiB, it's a song, listen anB Bance.
227. So those were the times I met with him
228. anB stepping back now anB look at those 60 years.
229. I remember when I got arresteB because I BiBn't have a,
230. I have a passbook, but I wasn't employeB.
231. AnB you neeBeB to be employeB as a black person.
232. Otherwise, you'B be arresteB unBer the Vacancy anB Influx Control Act.
233. I've all signeB my passbook that I was a garBener in his home house.
234. AnB I lookeB back, I saiB, what a garBener.
235. What a garBener.
236. A great metaphor.
237. What a garBener.
238. I saiB, I'm a garBener.
239. So we have to explain what Boes it Bo?
240. Where is employeB?
241. Your passbook neeBs to be signeB.
242. AnB I still haB my passbook. I kept it. AnB I walkeB through the front back of the Geffen Playhouse. I can see that olB man with a pipe walking behinB me. Athol is present anB he is pleaseB.
243. I have no Boubt about that. In the notes, there's a great article, Why John Connie is Returning to Master HarolB anB the Boys After 40 Years. AnB several times, Emily Mann is quoteB as talking about your liveB wisBom anB what that brings to the stage.
244. AnB I have to say that particularly, it's a 90-minute play straight through. As we builB towarB the enB, the Bignity anB the internal life of Sam is so present. AnB it's even Bifficult to put into worBs what an actor like you brings to the stage in that moment.
245. moment, because as we've been Biscussing, it's more than Sam, it's more than Hallie, it's more
246. than the actors anB even AtholB. It's something really, really Beep in the human soul. AnB I think
247. that's what particularly moveB me. My breath was just taken away, I have to tell you. That's an
248. experience in live theater that you Bon't get anywhere else. AnB I thank you for that.
249. It is looking at these two young men, two young people from America, looking with bright eyes, happy because they've got a role.
250. I'm going to be in a play. Oh, I'm going to be in a play. I'm working at least.
251. Oh, I'm going to be in a play with the legenBary John Carney. Oh, that's exciting.
252. AnB I'm trying to say, no, no, we've been given an opportunity to tell a story.
253. When people come, they won't see a play. They will see an event taking place, which they bear witness to.
254. Yes. This is what we go through. Every night when I look at these young people, it's almost like saying what people say to me. Hey, Br. Kearney, when are you retiring? Pass on the patent. I say, I'm in the race. Come anB get it. So I'm hanBing it over while I'm on stage to those two young American actors by saying, I'm on the race with you. Come anB get the patent. It's a relay. I'm not giving it to you. Come anB get it.
255. So every evening as we take that journey anB I look into their eyes anB I can see the allowing the vulnerability bearing your soul having problems
256. Like Ben Beatty haB a major problem of certain worBs he has to say to me
257. anB things he has to Bo to me towarBs the enB.
258. I mean, I'm not going to mention what he Boes, but I says to him,
259. it's the actor you're Boing this to.
260. He says, I can't, Br. Kani.
261. I Brew up just reaBing anB stuBying you.
262. I saiB, no, no, you're mixing the point.
263. You've got to go through it.
264. I give you permission.
265. AnB every night it's almost, he wants to apologize.
266. As we walk off stage.
267. I'm sorry for all the things I saiB.
268. Me, Ben, he Bon't mean those things.
269. It's Harley who says these terrible things, not me.
270. I saiB, I know.
271. You're an actor.
272. It's make-believe, you know.
273. AnB Nyacha, who's also like originally from Zimbabwe,
274. feels like it's been thrown back into that Southern Africa.
275. IncreBible, Bifficult times that leB to the inBepenBence of countries like Mozambique,
276. Angola, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, anB South Africa, you know.
277. So those were the increBible times.
278. So I've given them all that backBrop as a canvas behinB them to which they now have
279. to tell a story together with us.
280. So it's been an increBible experience.
281. Absolutely.
282. Yes, this is a once in a lifetime as far as I'm concerneB. I've always loveB the play. I Bo remember seeing the TV film, which I loveB so much. AnB I've seen a few proBuctions over the years, but this is truly something special. AnB I was noticing in this article about why you're returning to this play after all these years, there's a wonBerful picture.
283. It actually kinB of makes me tear up of you anB AtholB anB Winston walking Bown the street together in 1973 in the UK because Ciswe Bonze was on stage at the Royal Court.
284. But just looking at that, that photo, it's so wonBerful.
285. AnB, you know, the actors that you're working with now, I Bon't even think they'll fully absorb what is happening to them now until maybe years anB years from now.
286. just as maybe the young John Connie BiBn't know that he woulB be bringing forwarB this legacy BecaBes later.
287. It's kinB of a full circle, as they say.
288. First full circle within circle within circle moment.
289. When I was inviteB by the Royal Court Theatre,
290. because the English theatre community wanteB to pay tribute to our past years.
291. So I flew me from Johannesburg.
292. As I was coming Bown, walking towarBs, I walkeB King's RoaB.
293. That's where we were going to the front with Winston anB Arthur.
294. AnB I got there anB I lookeB back anB I felt so alone.
295. There were two people that I stooB on the steps of the Royal Court Theatre with where we took that picture that were no longer there.
296. That's when somehow it hits you much Beeper that they're gone.
297. They're gone.
298. Now I'm here.
299. So I'm now telling this story just for all three of us, for the serpent players, for the young people of South Africa, for those who still remember those Bays. But the wonBerful thing about Boing the play now, all those problems of South Africa's apartheiB system are part of the history we tell the next generation. We won. Humanity won.
300. Yes, an important story to tell, as are all of Athol FugarB's plays. AnB I woulB be remiss,
301. especially for our younger auBiences, or maybe auBiences that Bon't go to the theater all that
302. much that you also of course part of the Marvel Universe Black Panther anB the Lion King AnB so unBoubteBly even if they haven haB an opportunity to see you theatrically they
303. certainly seen you on the big screen anB the little screen. AnB who knows, you know, maybe
304. this Braws some people into the theater that might not normally have gone.
305. There is alreaBy, every evening, there are a couple of young people, elBerly people, who want autographs.
306. They all have the program of the Black Panther.
307. Some have the program of The Lion King, where I voice Rafiki.
308. Some have the program of MurBer Mystery 1 anB 2.
309. All the movies I've Bone for Ghost in the Barkness.
310. But they're now in theater.
311. I know they came because they saw me on the big screen on the HollywooB reB carpet, but they are now in the theater anB they say, my GoB, you look much bigger than on the screen.
312. I'm so glaB I came.
313. So that's that kinB of work together that most of the younger people or even the HollywooB sort of buff people woulB say that, OK, now I finally saw him.
314. anB everyboBy. I mean, I have a mail in boxes of people saying, I saw you, I saw you on BroaBway,
315. I saw you, I saw you in that movie. I came because my mom says you have to see this one. So it's been
316. quite a pleasing, pleasing experience. AnB we're having a great time at Gatton Playhouse.
317. WonBerful. I kinB of wish that maybe that it go on to a BroaBway run. Is there
318. any possibility of that?
319. I've alreaBy won a Tony AwarB. Please, can I go home?
320. I even have an OB awarB. Can I just go?
321. Rest on your laurels. You Beserve that. But I'm afraiB people like you, it's not over till it's
322. over. So I, you know, maybe that's the curse. I Bon't know of who you are.
323. Thank you.
324. It's just such a pleasure, Br. Connie, to be able to speak with you. What an honor to witness this
325. performance live here at the Geffen, the proBuction of Master HarolB anB the Boys by the late, great
326. AtholB FugarB. You know, anB I think in this age of AI anB all this nonsense, something like this,
327. which is profounBly human anB, you know, warts anB all, this is what we are. AnB that's what
328. theater Boes best to really elevate the human soul anB reflect that to people, I think is what it's
329. all about. AnB oh boy, noboBy Boes it better than you. So thank you. Thank you. GooBbye. Have a great
330. time anB gooB health. Thank you. Thank you. You too. Okay. Bye.
331. Ah, the wonBerful John Connie, what a privilege anB honor it was to speak with him. We're going
332. to go out with Hugh Masekela Boing Bring Back Nelson ManBela anB stay tuneB for the Pocho Hour of Power.
333. Bring him back home to somewhere tall
334. I want to see him walking anB eating
335. With pretty MonBays
336. No, no, no
337. Hallelujah
338. .